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[Music]

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hello everyone and happy new year

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hope you had a great new year's

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celebration hope

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that 2022

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is going to be better it was actually a

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very good year for me in strange ways

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but uh i'm hoping that and i know it was

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a tough year for a lot of you out there

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and um let's hope that 2022 will be a

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better year

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for all stay healthy stay safe

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as we move forward and uh

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anyway i i do appreciate

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all the listeners to the show and as i

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mentioned before in a number of shows

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there's no new listeners contacting me

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all the time i just had someone

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contact me a couple days ago that wanted

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to know all my

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favorite youtube

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videos that's a tough one just to let

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you know because there's

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it it's i i started looking through it

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takes some time

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because there is

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a lot of youtube that you want to skip

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over there's a lot of things on there

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people are looking

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to get high ratings

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you know there are certain channels you

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want to stay away from i don't want to

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start out on a bad

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note here but there are certain channels

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you want to stay away from and uh anyway

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maybe i'll get into that at some point

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later on but um again thanks everyone

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for staying tuned all these years our

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blog this week from charles lear is a

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ufo lab in japan this is something that

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opened up on june 24th of this year

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world ufo day in japan and he's uh he's

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writing that and we do it he does an

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audio blog not we do he does an audio

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blog every week too and i can't wait

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to hear how he handles uh japanese when

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it comes to this audio blog that should

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be pretty

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interesting to say the least um we have

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a great guest tonight i really enjoy

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every time i talk to him it's a lot of

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fun he is he's got a quite a background

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and you know he probably gets tired of

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talking about his father but we're going

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to talk about his father anyway and

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that's the great paul i mean jay allen

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heineck paul heineck is our guest and

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we're going to be talking about that uh

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but paul has had quite a career on his

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own and he's been involved in all kinds

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of things his bio is up in the show

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notes so check that out and without

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further ado

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welcome to the show paul

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hello martin happy new year happy new

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year to you always always fun talking to

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you every time i always have a lot of

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fun and um

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you have a great sense of humor now when

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you were growing up in the household

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would did your dad have that type of

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sense of humor

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oh yeah you know

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people tend to think of scientists

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and i'm talking to you project blue book

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friends um as sort of you know vulcan

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type logic dominated robots

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and

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our father i'm one of five children as

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you know because you've met my brother

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joel yes um

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he had a very

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over developed fondness for puns

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um

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martin i'd love to hear it maybe yeah

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dealt to the bottom of the bowels of pun

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mountain okay so

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the pun the triple pun

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was long thought impossible by the best

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minds in

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punery

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and

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the triple pawn means

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three words three consecutive words

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three puns

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okay

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so my father undeterred by the daunting

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siciphian challenge of this decided to

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crack the code to

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untie the gordian knot and he did and he

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came back bringing the elixir to the

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village of the triple pun and it goes

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like this and the setup is not contrived

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or awkward at all

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so

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there's an astronomer father

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naturally who has a cattle farm again

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not at all contrived martin

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and he says he'll give

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the cattle farm

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that he has he's a gentleman

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you know side hustle hobbyist

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cattle farmer to his sons

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with the one condition

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that they call the farm

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solar focus

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okay again not at all awkward perfectly

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natural story that you don't even know

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is the premise for a pun

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and his son say okay

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astronomer father

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thanks and why do you require that we

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name the cattle farm from you

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solar focus

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and the father responds

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you have to name it solar focus

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because that's where the and are you

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ready i hope you're all sitting down

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the sun's s-o-n-s s-u-n-s

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meet m-e-a-t-m-e-e-t

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it's over focus

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oh my god how long did that take

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oh he would draw that out and you know

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the thing is my mom had a rule at the

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dinner table if you told three puns you

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had to leave and there was no appeal

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process you were gone you were banished

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and so like if i was up to two i would

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whisper to my brother and he would tell

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the third one but my dad came up with a

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triple pun because

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one night he had to leave to go to work

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but it was impolitic to say that so he

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busted out the triple pun and he was

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banished and i saw him smirking on the

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way out i hope he got a snack

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i'm sure he had the attic away from all

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of us bratty kids i'm sure he had it

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well provisioned oh oh wow um i spoke

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with um

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um pam i'm just trying to think her last

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name uh pam she was uh she's she was uh

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the widow of um

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tom schneider the talk show host oh sure

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and yes um and she told me that

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tom's

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favorite guest

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were was j allen heineck he said

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tomorrow so cool

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he said that he uh she said that pam

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burke that's her name she said that um

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after the show was over he would

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she would ask him to stay

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i mean he would ask

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your dad to stay so they could chat and

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that she said i don't know of any other

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i can't tell you a handful of other

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people

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that had that honor

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so that's cool i'd love to talk to her

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sometime that'd be kind of fun oh i

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could do that yeah i could i could

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certainly set that up she's very nice

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lady so

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this is uh

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it's always fun i think we're getting a

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little bit of feedback um

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from your computer i don't know if you

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can turn down your speakers just a

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little bit yeah in your speakers

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your speakers not your mic

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okay

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all right

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how's that

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uh so far

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sounds pretty good okay

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so let's talk about what you know your

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your dad i think that when i very first

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started looking into this topic one of

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the things that really fascinated me was

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when i started reading about your dad

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and how he

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you know he was like on one side project

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blue book

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and then after a while there was so much

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material

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that

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he said now wait a minute this really is

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something to this

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ufo thing ufo problem as they often say

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so do you happen to reap do you happen

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as a young kid i guess you were pretty

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young when that transition happened do

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you remember any of that his way of

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thinking back then

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you know there are five children as i

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mentioned and there are kind of two

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generations there's scott roxanne and

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joel

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then there's a 12 year gap and then

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there's me and my younger brother ross

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um so we have ross and i have different

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recollections than the older generation

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they remember project blue book and the

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air force

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and you know my father getting involved

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and being trepidatious and my parents

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wondering about how

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you know working on the ufo problem as

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you as you termed it would affect tenure

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he was an at at that point an untenured

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professor

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and you know johnning around the country

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working on flying saucers as it was

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known back then was not really a helpful

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way to get tenure

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so they remember that and you know the

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air force what ross and i remember more

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is the 70s and close encounters and you

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know after he had already made that

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conversion not from a skeptic to a

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believer i don't think scientists really

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traffic with the word belief but more as

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an uh somebody who accepted the

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accumulated weight of the data

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so he was already you know

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bathing in the kool-aid by that point um

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but to your point

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you know i i've talked a lot with our

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our dear family friend jacques valet

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and

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he says that it was the sequoia case in

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1964

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with lonnie zamora

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that

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really gave my father the

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comfort level to talk about abduction

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cases i think he had

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long come to the conclusion that the ufo

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phenomena which doesn't necessarily mean

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extraterrestrial origin but that there

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is a phenomena was real

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and it took him a while to sort of be

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comfortable as a

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nuts and bolts astrophysicist with the

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idea of abduction cases um and why is

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tomorrow it wasn't technically an

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abduction case but a a physical creature

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presence

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right

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another step you know that a lot of

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people

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do not want to take and i and i really

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think also

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um you know i say on the show all the

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time i don't know

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what they are you know for the new

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listener i i've been doing this show in

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particular over 10 years and i really

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don't have a clue

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what these things are but you know i

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have talked to many people that have

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seen beings

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and

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you know there's something

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i don't think that these people are

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making things up

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um you know especially when it comes to

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like the ariel school incident um yeah i

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had i had uh someone wayne uh

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albert wayne um

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that video i posted just a little while

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00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:30,880
ago has about 8 000 views so far and it

284
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:33,200
was about his sighting and you know very

285
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:34,720
earnest people and he happened to look

286
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,360
up to these amber colored windows

287
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:39,200
windows and he saw

288
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:41,760
you know uh humanoid type creatures

289
00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:43,920
staring down at him you know but there's

290
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:45,760
so many people there was another girl i

291
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:48,160
interviewed very similar

292
00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:51,600
situation you know and it's it is it

293
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:53,839
does seem like taking a big leap

294
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:55,040
but

295
00:11:59,430 --> 00:11:57,279
there's a lot of times you got to figure

296
00:12:00,470 --> 00:11:59,440
whatever those craft are there's

297
00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:00,480
something

298
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:02,560
piloting them whether they're

299
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:04,720
you know drone remote or whether they're

300
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:06,720
right there

301
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:08,320
right and i think

302
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,839
i break down the world um into two kinds

303
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:14,160
of people and i don't know if this quote

304
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:16,320
came from richard feynman or well before

305
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,639
him but basically there are two kinds of

306
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:20,079
people in the world

307
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:22,079
those who

308
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:23,600
are comfortable

309
00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:26,240
with questions they can't answer

310
00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:28,639
and those who prefer answers they don't

311
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:30,240
question

312
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:31,279
and

313
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:33,040
the ufo field

314
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,959
if you're okay

315
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:37,200
not having the answers i think you're

316
00:12:40,389 --> 00:12:39,279
more comfortable taking that next step

317
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:40,399
because it's

318
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:43,360
it's it's difficult for some people to

319
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:44,320
say

320
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,200
okay there's a phenomenon here and not

321
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,959
have a ready-made answer like

322
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:50,560
extraterrestrial

323
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:54,160
to to provide the answers for it um it's

324
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:55,760
because it's very difficult and like you

325
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:57,519
said you've been doing this for 10 years

326
00:13:01,670 --> 00:13:00,320
i don't remember life without ufos we

327
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:01,680
had flying

328
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:03,760
ornaments on the christmas trees i'm not

329
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:05,760
really that much closer although i do

330
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:07,600
have a particular

331
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,360
area of interest

332
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:11,040
for origin

333
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:11,920
um

334
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:14,880
but if you are not comfortable

335
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:17,600
having a large question that you can't

336
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:18,480
answer

337
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:20,000
i don't think you really want to take

338
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:21,680
that next step i think you just keep

339
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:24,880
saying oh i hear about these ufos

340
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,639
but you know i got to pay my mortgage i

341
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:28,320
got to do this i'm not interested i

342
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:29,519
don't know

343
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:30,880
but if you're a little bit more

344
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:33,360
comfortable with ambiguity i think that

345
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:35,200
naturally propels you a little bit more

346
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:38,000
to add one more you know unanswered

347
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:40,959
question to your uh quiver

348
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:42,959
yes um so you know you're not going to

349
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:45,279
get away with me not asking you what

350
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,320
you're

351
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,720
you said you have kind of an opinion

352
00:13:53,189 --> 00:13:50,320
of origin

353
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:53,199
so yeah yeah i'd like to know what what

354
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:54,959
that opinion is and i know it's just an

355
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:56,720
opinion

356
00:14:03,910 --> 00:13:58,880
yeah yeah um and it's not it's not gonna

357
00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:03,920
be news to you um but so

358
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,399
given a variety of factors well first

359
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:08,160
you know i think um

360
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:10,000
i'm not a scientist but i can pretend to

361
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,600
be one sometimes

362
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,440
scientists often work with a process of

363
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:15,120
elimination so

364
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:17,680
you start with sort of the knee-jerk

365
00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:19,760
cultural default

366
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:21,519
idea of

367
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:23,920
extraterrestrial origin well what are

368
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,160
the problems with that and there's a

369
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:28,800
variety of non-trivial problems with

370
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:31,920
that hypothesis one is that the vast

371
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:34,240
distances that they have to go through

372
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:35,600
and you kind of alluded to this whether

373
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:37,600
there might be drones or synthetic

374
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:40,320
beings or biological beings etc but in

375
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:41,920
any case they have to come from a very

376
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:44,480
long way away if they're doing it

377
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,880
through conventional propulsion or

378
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:48,959
you know wormholes or something else

379
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:50,959
don't know but they come from a long way

380
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:51,920
away

381
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:53,040
and

382
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:56,720
first of all how do they even find us

383
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:59,440
yes we've been beaming episodes of i

384
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:02,000
love lucy into the admin into the

385
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,880
universe low these many decades but it's

386
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:06,800
non-trivial just to find us in the

387
00:15:13,030 --> 00:15:09,920
vastness of space and then if they come

388
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:13,040
from so far away by whatever means they

389
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:14,560
do

390
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,120
sky or scare farmer jones at night and

391
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:21,360
leave why not the signal

392
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:24,079
you know white house landing with walter

393
00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:27,839
cronkite narrating it we also have

394
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,160
very sensitive instruments to detect

395
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:32,320
their entrance or objects entering and

396
00:15:36,550 --> 00:15:34,560
leaving the atmosphere and we don't seem

397
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,560
to have associated reports of that

398
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:38,639
although i have a fun anecdote about

399
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:41,759
that if you like and then they exhibit a

400
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:43,920
lot of comfort in our gravity and our

401
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:45,360
atmosphere

402
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:47,279
so those are interesting

403
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,360
things you have to consider if you want

404
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:51,440
the extraterrestrial hypothesis

405
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:54,560
but even beyond that my father and

406
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:56,240
jacques and others

407
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,040
long ago started thinking that

408
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,519
the extraterrestrial hypothesis could

409
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:04,079
well be part of the phenomena but

410
00:16:09,749 --> 00:16:07,279
doesn't seem to explain the totality

411
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,759
of the phenomena i think that's one of

412
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:11,279
the reasons my father

413
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:13,680
called his first book the ufo experience

414
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:16,160
as opposed to the ufo sighting or you

415
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:18,160
know

416
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:20,079
just focusing on the object because as

417
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:21,199
you know

418
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:22,399
a lot of

419
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,839
experiencers contactees witnesses what

420
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:27,759
have you

421
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,480
don't often place the visual sighting of

422
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:32,560
a craft as the

423
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:34,399
sort of the largest element of the

424
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,360
overall experience so there seems to be

425
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:39,120
more to it

426
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:40,240
so

427
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:42,240
uh many before me have thought well

428
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,680
there may be an inter-dimensional aspect

429
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:47,920
and there are some interesting reasons

430
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:48,880
for that

431
00:16:53,749 --> 00:16:50,959
for me that explains the two biggest

432
00:16:56,550 --> 00:16:53,759
questions of how would they know about

433
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:56,560
us well they're you know in la we say

434
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:58,480
you're somewhere adjacent they're earth

435
00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:00,399
adjacent right there and there may be

436
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,360
our cousins or maybe our future cells so

437
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:05,439
that would help explain

438
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,880
how they know about us and why they care

439
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:10,079
so

440
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:12,480
to me that's a really intriguing path

441
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:13,439
and

442
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,199
i was having lunch with a friend of mine

443
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,280
who by the way crash landed tardigrades

444
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,199
on the moon a couple years ago

445
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:21,760
and he knew about my father and asked me

446
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:23,839
where does your father think ufos come

447
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:25,919
from i said oh i don't know maybe

448
00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:28,319
interdimensionally oh you should read a

449
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:32,880
book called alien information theory

450
00:17:38,470 --> 00:17:35,440
and i said alien information theory

451
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:38,480
sexiest book title ever

452
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:41,200
so of course i read that and

453
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:42,799
you know it's

454
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,760
it what it posits the

455
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:47,840
the theory that

456
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,080
when you take dmt

457
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:52,160
which is the most powerful psychedelic

458
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:54,240
drug known on earth

459
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:56,559
sort of the big brother of its better

460
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:57,840
known

461
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:00,640
little sister ayahuasca

462
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:02,400
that it's it

463
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:03,760
and

464
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:06,559
the experiences you have there may

465
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,840
not be hallucinations but they may

466
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:11,919
actually be

467
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:15,600
different realities that dmt

468
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:19,440
allows you to sort of filter and receive

469
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:20,320
um

470
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:21,840
while doing that

471
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:24,000
and so i read and i read that book and i

472
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:26,160
read the spirit molecule by rick

473
00:18:31,669 --> 00:18:29,679
strassman and i was struck martin by

474
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:31,679
what seemed to me to be the similarities

475
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,240
between the data he was collecting

476
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:36,320
and the patterns from the early days of

477
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:38,559
ufology i thought well that's

478
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,559
interesting so

479
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:42,960
purely in the interest of science martin

480
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,039
i started taking dmt

481
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:47,039
and the first time i took it

482
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,679
like many others i felt

483
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:51,600
transported through a

484
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:53,280
vividly colored

485
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:54,240
tunnel

486
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:56,559
to this other realm

487
00:19:00,870 --> 00:18:58,080
and um

488
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:00,880
it was overwhelming and amazing and by

489
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:03,840
the time i got i i got my sea legs

490
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:05,679
and i then

491
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:09,360
sort of communicated to the

492
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,640
like mostly feminine intelligence all

493
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:14,400
around me

494
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:17,600
are you what we perceive to be ufos and

495
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:18,799
aliens

496
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:20,080
and i felt

497
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:22,480
millions of miles of synapses and

498
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,679
neurons firing as i felt the fabric of

499
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,600
the universe being created and the

500
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:29,919
answer bubbled down to me

501
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:32,640
we can't explain in a way that you would

502
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:34,080
understand

503
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:35,600
well i believe that

504
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,400
i totally believe that and i thought

505
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:40,080
well um

506
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,720
i understand no so it seems like there's

507
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,160
something here

508
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:46,080
it goes like a preliminary confirmation

509
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:48,320
and i'm now actually

510
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:50,400
working on a way

511
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,960
with both dmt users and ufo experiencers

512
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:57,200
to try to verify

513
00:20:01,270 --> 00:19:59,840
that those experiences might actually be

514
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:01,280
real

515
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:04,080
how about that um you know

516
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:06,559
the way this whole show went together uh

517
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:08,080
behind the scenes the person that

518
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:11,600
doesn't know what happened um

519
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:13,840
you got pulled in just before the show

520
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:16,000
because with this streaming platform

521
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:17,840
that i'm using for some reason the links

522
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:20,159
have been wrong a couple different shows

523
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:21,840
as long as yours you were waiting for me

524
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:23,840
and i'm waiting for you

525
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,559
but um i do i'm kind of putting you on

526
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:28,799
the spot but you can

527
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:32,080
bow out very easily i

528
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:35,520
um i've been watching uh you are a

529
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:38,159
historic person in a way

530
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:41,600
um uh we're talking i'm talking about um

531
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:42,799
the youth

532
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:46,799
thing that um you have been tested yeah

533
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:50,000
so the only person that's ever regressed

534
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,360
in age

535
00:20:57,909 --> 00:20:54,240
uh do i have that correct or or or is it

536
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:57,919
the mind what is what's the part of that

537
00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:00,400
my mind has not stayed youthful my mind

538
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,400
has deteriorated but

539
00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:04,080
yeah i would i would you want that to

540
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,559
say i can make the claim

541
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,080
that um

542
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,240
i'm not the only person but in the

543
00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:12,720
history of the world

544
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,240
based on

545
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:16,559
evidence published in a scientific

546
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:17,760
journal

547
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:21,120
i have the most success in reversing my

548
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:23,600
age that's what i'm trying to say

549
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:24,480
um

550
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:27,919
i do another show called the everything

551
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:30,000
else show i would love to do a show just

552
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:31,760
entirely on that and you don't have to

553
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:32,799
say anything

554
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,960
oh you already said sure okay i'll be

555
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:37,120
talking about that i'm free that day i

556
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,360
checked my schedule

557
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:41,280
i think that is totally fascinating you

558
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:43,120
know this show will talk about ufos but

559
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:45,280
for those of you that just heard that

560
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,280
whole thing i'm going to do an entire

561
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:49,200
show on this because there's a lot to

562
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:51,919
say about it and it's fascinating

563
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:52,720
and

564
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:55,120
it's a viable way for everybody to

565
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:57,760
actually reverse their age

566
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:01,440
in a in a medically documented fashion

567
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:03,600
it's crazy it's really amazing really

568
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:05,360
amazing all right so we're going to go

569
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:10,870
safer ground

570
00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:13,679
no not necessarily but uh

571
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,640
so i i know that i talked with you and

572
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,720
calvin parker together that was great

573
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:20,480
and and uh

574
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,559
you you were actually took his phone

575
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:25,280
call wit and wrote it on the chalkboard

576
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:26,480
at home so

577
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:29,280
i i think that that's back in 1973 is

578
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:32,480
that what yeah yeah right so so what

579
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:35,679
let's talk about what was it like

580
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:38,320
just just paint a picture of a a day in

581
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:40,960
the life of your your your youth growing

582
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,720
up and what was it like being

583
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,960
in that household

584
00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:46,559
i'm talking about ufos you know for the

585
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:49,679
most part but uh yeah yeah so

586
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,720
you know

587
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:52,720
um

588
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:55,039
how

589
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,120
unless there's some reason for you at a

590
00:23:01,510 --> 00:22:59,840
very young age to compare your

591
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:01,520
circumstances either

592
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:03,679
really good or really bad

593
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:05,120
to others

594
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:06,720
i think for most people however you're

595
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:09,200
raised seems normal that's the default

596
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:11,840
and the normal for you so yes

597
00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:15,280
growing up i don't think any of us felt

598
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:16,480
that it was

599
00:23:21,029 --> 00:23:18,960
that much different you know most of our

600
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:21,039
life was pretty similar i remember i

601
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:23,039
talked about playing kickball when you

602
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:25,919
and i and um calvin talked and so we had

603
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:28,000
a lot of things that were quite normal

604
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,120
um

605
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:30,960
but then we would have you know phone

606
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,159
calls from calvin parker and our father

607
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,960
gill or travis walton over for dinner

608
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:38,159
and our

609
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:40,559
dinner time conversations would be

610
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:42,559
you know how we did at school

611
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:45,600
what's going on and what exactly did you

612
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:47,840
see at 6 p.m last night to our dinner

613
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:48,880
guest

614
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:52,400
so it was a mix of normal

615
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:55,520
suburban americana and

616
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:57,440
overall scientific discussions because

617
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,679
my father was an astronomer he was a

618
00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:01,279
scientist

619
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:03,919
and his later in life side hustle was

620
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:06,720
ufo so he wasn't he didn't

621
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,760
self-identify as a ufo guy but more as a

622
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:11,440
scientist and i think he wanted to

623
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:14,559
impart upon us kids the sort of

624
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,360
wonder and magic of science and that way

625
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:19,360
of looking at the world

626
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:22,720
accented often by ufos

627
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:24,720
amazing amazing and i'm sure you had

628
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,440
some

629
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,520
quite astounding dinner guests over the

630
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:29,120
years

631
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:30,159
um

632
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:32,000
what was that like i mean did did people

633
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:40,149
yeah uh all sorts of people and

634
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:42,799
one series of meals that i can recount

635
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:43,600
that

636
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:46,640
super cool

637
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:49,760
was in again in 1973

638
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,840
there was an eclipse crews that left

639
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:53,120
from new york

640
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:55,120
that want to go see

641
00:25:01,510 --> 00:24:59,120
the point of totality off the

642
00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:01,520
western coast of africa by the canary

643
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:02,480
islands

644
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:03,520
and so

645
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:06,080
our family ross and me and my mom and

646
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,880
dad

647
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:08,720
went on there and we went for free

648
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:10,720
because my father was lecturing

649
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,360
and the really cool thing was that

650
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:16,159
for those two weeks our family and one

651
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:18,400
other family shared one table for all

652
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:19,520
our meals

653
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:21,600
and that was neil armstrong and his

654
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,559
family

655
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,640
wow and this is four years after the

656
00:25:28,549 --> 00:25:26,559
moon launch martin i mean there's nobody

657
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:28,559
in the world that uh you know

658
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:31,120
persnickety astronomers

659
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:33,279
kid would rather have met than neil

660
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:34,480
armstrong

661
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:35,200
and

662
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:36,880
you know there's a story that came out

663
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,360
in the sun in the uk

664
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:41,200
about two years ago and you can search

665
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:42,480
for it just search like heineken

666
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:43,520
armstrong

667
00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:48,000
to sit with our family

668
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:49,039
now

669
00:25:52,710 --> 00:25:50,559
at the time i thought maybe he was a fan

670
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,720
of my father's prior astronomical

671
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:54,960
exploits but no he was very interested

672
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,400
in ufos and almost joined with my father

673
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:01,200
to do some public efforts but you know

674
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:02,080
he was

675
00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:05,520
also

676
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:07,679
especially in the 70s

677
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:08,640
the

678
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:12,159
ufos and he wasn't comfortable but

679
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:14,080
behind the scenes he was fascinated by

680
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,600
ufos so

681
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,520
for us as kids

682
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:19,039
um

683
00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:20,159
you know

684
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:21,919
meeting his kids being friends with them

685
00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:23,600
and being with neil armstrong for two

686
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:25,440
weeks was just a dream

687
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,000
um and neil degrasse tyson was a kid on

688
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,880
the ship isaac asimov was on the ship

689
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:32,320
and i remember

690
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:34,480
two girls maybe 20 years old asking for

691
00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:36,880
his autograph he wrote on their thighs

692
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:39,279
isaac asimov was here and i thought that

693
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:40,400
was the best thing i've ever seen in my

694
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:42,640
life

695
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:45,919
yeah yeah uh wow and

696
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:47,840
as far as uh

697
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:49,919
astronomers other astronomers did you

698
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,000
ever meet carl sagan for one

699
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,640
uh i didn't i don't know about my other

700
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:58,080
siblings but

701
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:00,400
you know i mentioned an anecdote related

702
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:02,240
to

703
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:04,080
detecting objects entering the

704
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,159
atmosphere and i could bring out carl

705
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:08,400
sagan in relation to that so as you know

706
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,279
my father and carl sagan were kind of um

707
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:13,600
i'd say friendly respectful foes they

708
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:16,159
they had some debates on television and

709
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:17,679
actually one day i think what was on the

710
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,120
tonight show

711
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:21,120
before they went on stage carl sagan

712
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,120
actually admitted that privately he had

713
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,200
somewhat different opinion than his kind

714
00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:28,240
of public poo pooing

715
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:30,320
but as i as i learned from jacques valet

716
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:33,520
just a couple weeks ago

717
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:35,440
my father was talking with carl sagan

718
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:37,760
and about well

719
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:39,679
shouldn't norad and i don't remember

720
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:42,080
what it stands for but it's like

721
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:44,240
the the american i think installation in

722
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:46,559
wyoming maybe colorado that has the

723
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:48,799
responsibility of of you know checking

724
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:50,240
for missiles coming in the atmosphere

725
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,360
etc

726
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:53,679
um they should have reports

727
00:27:57,990 --> 00:27:56,159
and so carl sagan said well alan i know

728
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:58,000
somebody there i'll go there so he went

729
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:58,960
there

730
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:01,039
and he talked with them

731
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:02,880
and he asked them hey

732
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:05,600
do you guys have reports of

733
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:07,200
i don't know if he used unidentified

734
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:08,960
because that's kind of a charged term

735
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:11,600
for the military of objects entering the

736
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:14,240
atmosphere that you don't know about

737
00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:15,200
and

738
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:17,200
apparently the people he talked to said

739
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:18,399
yes

740
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:22,000
we call those uncorrelated targets huh

741
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:22,880
and

742
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:25,279
we dismiss them we discard them because

743
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:27,120
they're not part of our of our mission

744
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:31,360
prerogative or our emission purview and

745
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:34,159
you know i'm not sure how much

746
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:36,159
my father and carl sagan thought that

747
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:39,039
that was deliberate to

748
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:40,559
tamp down

749
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:44,320
but to me i think it's equally possible

750
00:28:49,029 --> 00:28:46,640
that this is a

751
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:49,039
innocuous

752
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,120
government agency

753
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:53,760
discarding what could be

754
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:57,200
really important ufo information because

755
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:59,120
it's not their job right they've got it

756
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:00,720
they've got a lot to do

757
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:02,320
they've got to correlate these targets

758
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:04,480
and do whatever procedures they have

759
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,320
and so they're looking for a quick no

760
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,559
it's like if you're interviewing 100

761
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:11,120
people for your for a job you want to

762
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:13,840
rule out people right away so i think

763
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:15,200
you know people think that the

764
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:17,520
government is one big monolithic block

765
00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:20,320
that has orders from on high to rule out

766
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:22,880
ufos i think it's much more multivariate

767
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:25,120
and much more complicated and not always

768
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:27,039
as sinister and it's just i think in

769
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:28,240
this case

770
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:30,640
that's not their job so they don't keep

771
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:31,919
those records and i found that

772
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:33,360
fascinating

773
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:35,840
you know i was uh i was just on a shout

774
00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:38,720
out to lou over at the unidentified

775
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,640
celebrity reviewer i was on his show

776
00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:42,480
last night on his live stream a lot of

777
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:44,799
fun and that was one of the questions

778
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:47,520
that um i was actually throwing out

779
00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:50,000
there was is you know when the

780
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:52,159
government's looking into these

781
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,640
you know into ufos as they they should

782
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:56,320
be coming up

783
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:58,559
really looking into it wouldn't they

784
00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:00,240
contact i mean

785
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:02,720
norad is one place but there's also a

786
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:04,960
lot of satellites that should be able to

787
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,200
detect something coming in toward our

788
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:09,679
orbit um and it just seems like that

789
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:12,240
would be a logical place for them to

790
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:15,360
look like are there things coming in and

791
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:16,559
um but

792
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:18,320
like you said it's a you have an

793
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:20,159
interesting theory

794
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:23,200
and it does um it's it's one of the

795
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:26,000
things that i don't discount that

796
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:27,120
possibly

797
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:30,320
um some of whatever it is that comes

798
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:31,120
here

799
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:35,200
another dimension or

800
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:37,520
or it's all

801
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:40,159
you know we don't know but i i really do

802
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:41,039
like

803
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:45,120
probably a lot of different things

804
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:47,200
and uh right

805
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:48,000
right

806
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:49,679
and also i like

807
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:51,120
what you said

808
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,279
that um it's probably something we

809
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:55,679
wouldn't understand i think that's

810
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:56,880
i think that's

811
00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:58,000
probably

812
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:01,679
uh pretty accurate for some of it anyway

813
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:03,840
yeah you know nasa on sort of a more

814
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:06,559
prosaic level has talked about

815
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:08,960
one of the challenges in recognizing

816
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:11,519
life elsewhere in the universe and one

817
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:12,399
of the

818
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:14,320
you know things they have to consider is

819
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:15,200
that

820
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,240
we may not even recognize it as life as

821
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,559
we know it it could be such a you know

822
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:22,559
not only not carbon-based but it could

823
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:24,080
be such a different

824
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:26,080
format of life that we wouldn't even

825
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:28,159
recognize it right it could be

826
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,080
silicone-based too there's that's

827
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:32,880
another one and but you know

828
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:35,440
some have surmised right right but you

829
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:37,440
know i mean there there is a lot to be

830
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,559
said for the bipedal bifocal you know i

831
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:42,240
mean you look at all the species on this

832
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:44,000
planet there's so many

833
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,880
that have that trait but um

834
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:48,480
you know this is also a conversation i

835
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:50,399
got into last night was uh

836
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:53,600
you know gravity uh if there's a binary

837
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:56,880
solar system that could change evolution

838
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,000
um a tide a tidal moon that could change

839
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:02,000
evolution there's so many

840
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,480
variables auction oxygen levels or

841
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,559
whatever it is the level they need to

842
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:09,440
survive all of those things food

843
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:11,679
um you know things that make

844
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:14,080
things that in our development developed

845
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:17,039
our brains more like uh you know

846
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:19,840
fire fire for cooking food you know that

847
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:22,320
that's another another thing so this all

848
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,320
these variables it would be kind of

849
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,159
shocking

850
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:28,799
if a humanoid look just like us

851
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:31,440
you know a thousand light years away but

852
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:34,320
it's also possible too you know it's you

853
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:37,039
know i i came across something recently

854
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:39,039
in our early

855
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:41,200
development um

856
00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:42,720
our ancestors at one time were

857
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:45,279
coexisting with two other hominoid

858
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:46,480
species

859
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:49,679
bigger

860
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:54,240
stronger and smarter than us

861
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:57,679
and yet we survived and they didn't

862
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:01,200
and it was fascinating and what they

863
00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:04,720
they what they sort of theorized is that

864
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:08,240
those bigger smarter stronger entities

865
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:09,760
had their pick of the litter they could

866
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:11,440
eat whatever they want and we were kind

867
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:13,600
of like hyenas coming in for seconds on

868
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:15,600
the food and eating whatever we could

869
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:17,919
and foraging and just basically just

870
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,600
barely scraping by

871
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,440
and that at some point there was an

872
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:23,519
environmental change

873
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:26,320
and that led everybody to have to move

874
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:29,760
and to have different diets well these

875
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:31,279
you know big strong things that have

876
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:34,000
been used to eating whatever they wanted

877
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,279
they were less able to adapt quickly to

878
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:39,840
a different diet now us being foragers

879
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:42,480
and scrappers ate whatever we wanted so

880
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:43,840
it was our

881
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:47,600
slightly higher ability to adapt to a

882
00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:49,760
different diet and different environment

883
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:52,159
that led us to proliferate after that

884
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:55,120
environmental change otherwise you know

885
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:56,159
it could have been very different and

886
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:59,120
that's just such a razor thin margin for

887
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:00,399
evolution

888
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:02,720
right right and you know like right now

889
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:03,360
if

890
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:06,159
our power grid was completely gone you

891
00:34:11,349 --> 00:34:09,040
know it's a real high number of our

892
00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:11,359
population would be wiped out but think

893
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:13,440
of those who survive are the people that

894
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:16,000
are barely surviving now you know that

895
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:19,200
um grow their own food that you know

896
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,879
those may be the ones that end up

897
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:22,240
surviving not to say that they have

898
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:24,879
lesser intelligence i'm just saying you

899
00:34:29,030 --> 00:34:26,720
know we're kind of uh we've had it kind

900
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:29,040
of easy and it would be awful hard

901
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:31,280
to go back without power or anything

902
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:33,440
like that i mean the average meal comes

903
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:36,560
from something like 1500 miles away you

904
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:39,040
know um we would have a real tough time

905
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,320
if everything went down well i mean i'd

906
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:44,480
be fine martin i'd last a good 12 hours

907
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:46,079
then my laptop dies and then it's just

908
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:47,760
chaos

909
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:51,760
yeah um so

910
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,079
as far as um i want to get back just a

911
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:56,159
little before we go into other things

912
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:57,280
um

913
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:59,359
so your idea

914
00:35:03,430 --> 00:35:00,160
is

915
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:03,440
that possibly that these things could be

916
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:05,839
interdimensional possibly that is really

917
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:08,240
a really good theory um

918
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:10,560
but then there's also the really strange

919
00:35:13,990 --> 00:35:12,000
things that

920
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:14,000
um you know there's never a sound

921
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,000
barrier broken when these things speed

922
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,480
off uh they go into water and out of

923
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,640
water and through water really fast i

924
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,480
mean all these really strange things and

925
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:25,200
i don't know how another dimension would

926
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:27,599
would make that any you know coming from

927
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,119
and going to

928
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:31,359
uh if that's all part of it

929
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,320
um

930
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:34,560
had your father ever looked or talked

931
00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:36,880
about anything that you're aware of when

932
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,440
it came to things like uh being seen on

933
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:41,280
radar at high speeds and no sound

934
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:44,000
barrier broken things like that

935
00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:45,680
i don't remember

936
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:47,119
specifically

937
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:49,440
sound barriers but he had something he

938
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:52,640
talked about the cheshire cat phenomena

939
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:55,359
where you'd see an object here and then

940
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:57,599
without seeing it move you'd see it over

941
00:35:59,430 --> 00:35:58,480
here

942
00:36:01,670 --> 00:35:59,440
so

943
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,680
one of the examples of of violating you

944
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:03,040
know are

945
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,960
known laws of physics

946
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:07,119
and there's a there's several of those

947
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:09,520
that he remarked that led him again to

948
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:10,480
think

949
00:36:14,470 --> 00:36:12,160
this nuts and bolts thing of crafts

950
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:14,480
coming here just doesn't seem to wash

951
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:15,839
um

952
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:18,560
the interdimensional hypothesis

953
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:20,400
seems to me to explain some of the

954
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:21,599
questions but

955
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:24,800
i'm not convinced that even if that is

956
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:26,880
real that it explains everything like

957
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:28,880
you said i think there could be multiple

958
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:29,839
explanations it could be

959
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:32,560
extraterrestrial it could be

960
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:34,800
manifestations of collective unconscious

961
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:36,720
and we're talking about the good reports

962
00:36:40,510 --> 00:36:38,480
right the reports that that bear

963
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:40,520
scrutiny not the hoaxes and

964
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:43,440
misidentifications of venus etc

965
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:46,560
but i wouldn't be surprised if

966
00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:48,480
you know even if we find out that there

967
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:51,119
is an extraterrestrial component we

968
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:53,760
still are peeling back onion layers for

969
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:55,520
decades after that

970
00:37:02,310 --> 00:36:56,320
right

971
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:02,320
i also like what you said about you know

972
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,040
the the vast distances i mean it's it's

973
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:07,200
even hard to fathom you know how far

974
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:09,839
away a light year is and the near star

975
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:12,640
is four over four light years away

976
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:15,200
uh how the travel could be possible

977
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:16,320
maybe there's

978
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:21,599
that they know about physics that we

979
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,599
haven't figured out yet you know there's

980
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:25,680
all kinds of things like that but um

981
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,800
also

982
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:28,560
um i've said this

983
00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:30,400
you know a number of times on the show

984
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:32,160
why would we be so special if there's

985
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:33,440
life everywhere

986
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:35,599
you know and but i've had people that

987
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:37,359
had pretty good answers

988
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:39,520
for that too you know

989
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,599
you know because uh you know our planet

990
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:44,160
is thriving with life you know and and

991
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:46,320
the signals are out there that we're

992
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:48,640
we're here not just i'm talking about

993
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:51,359
biological signals here's a a question

994
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:53,920
and i think it's a decent one so if you

995
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:55,359
want to ask a question in chat just put

996
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:58,720
it in all caps like joni did um during

997
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,440
blue book was uh 1965 the kecksburg

998
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:03,119
crashed do you know if that was

999
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:04,960
investigated by blue book

1000
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:07,680
your father i believe so but i don't

1001
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:10,079
have any more information about it i'm

1002
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:13,119
familiar with the case but i don't know

1003
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:14,800
like the official blue book or my

1004
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:17,280
father's sort of determination about it

1005
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,520
yeah yeah there's uh there's there's

1006
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,680
controversy about keksburg

1007
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:23,760
you know whether it possibly could have

1008
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:26,240
been you know something that we put up

1009
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:28,320
there that came down but you know there

1010
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:30,000
but it is kind of bizarre how it did

1011
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:32,000
shoot off in another direction or a

1012
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:34,240
change change directions or something on

1013
00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:37,119
the path uh that's always an interesting

1014
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:38,079
um

1015
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,599
interesting one so again if you want to

1016
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:41,760
ask questions just to let everyone know

1017
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:43,599
that uh we're going to a break at the

1018
00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:45,119
top of the hour

1019
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:47,200
and we're going to be taking calls the

1020
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:48,960
last half hour screen calls with bill is

1021
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:50,640
going to be screening your calls so if

1022
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:52,000
you have a question you can either put

1023
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:54,079
it in chat or save it for a call

1024
00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:57,359
um later on uh what are some of the

1025
00:39:02,069 --> 00:38:59,920
cases that you heard about at the subway

1026
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,079
table supper table

1027
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:04,640
talk that was really fascinating

1028
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:06,880
let's go back to uh calvin parker and

1029
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:09,599
pascagoula um

1030
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:11,119
and that's a case

1031
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:13,200
that that you know quite well

1032
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,640
has sort of gotten even stronger

1033
00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:19,440
over the passing years with more

1034
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,960
witnesses

1035
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:22,800
coming to the fore

1036
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:24,640
attesting to what they saw in a

1037
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:26,240
consistent way

1038
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:29,440
with calvin and charlie's um

1039
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:31,839
uh account yeah and

1040
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,960
you know one of the things i learned

1041
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:34,880
about in our interview that we did with

1042
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:35,839
you

1043
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:37,520
was that

1044
00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:38,960
you know they saw

1045
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:40,320
the the

1046
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:42,000
they had the sighting i think maybe on a

1047
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:43,280
friday

1048
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:44,320
um

1049
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:46,400
and over the weekend and they were in

1050
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,040
the personnel office of the shipyard at

1051
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,119
like seven o'clock the next morning

1052
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:53,359
which i thought was remarkable and

1053
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:55,599
calvin said that my father was in the

1054
00:40:01,829 --> 00:39:58,560
office there like 7 a.m the next morning

1055
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:01,839
amazing and he never understood

1056
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:05,119
how he was there that quickly

1057
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:06,640
i think he must have been in the gulf

1058
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:09,280
coast already on some other kind of

1059
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:10,480
business

1060
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:11,520
and

1061
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:14,960
again as you know

1062
00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:16,400
one of the interesting things about the

1063
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:18,079
case was that

1064
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:20,000
calvin and charlie were in the police

1065
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:22,480
room being you know interrogated

1066
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:23,520
actually

1067
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:24,560
and

1068
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:26,800
the police left the room

1069
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:27,920
and

1070
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:29,760
inadvertently left the tape recorder

1071
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,560
recording and it's pretty clear that

1072
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:34,560
charlie and calvin who were not you know

1073
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:36,880
trained actors didn't know that was

1074
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:39,280
happening right and they were it was

1075
00:40:43,390 --> 00:40:41,119
left recording them and what really

1076
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:43,400
seemed to be

1077
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:45,200
traumatized

1078
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:47,040
uh honest

1079
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:48,079
you know

1080
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:50,160
trying to cope with the situation and my

1081
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:53,520
father found that very compelling um

1082
00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:55,440
somebody asked him once is that a good

1083
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:56,960
case he said yeah that's a very strong

1084
00:41:02,470 --> 00:40:59,839
case they said is it real but my father

1085
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:02,480
being a scientist and no you know

1086
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:05,040
beast merchant meant to my friend calvin

1087
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:07,440
said how the hell should i know i wasn't

1088
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:08,240
there

1089
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,200
but i believe that calvin believes it

1090
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:13,440
happened and there's good evidence to

1091
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:15,520
support that that's what a scientist

1092
00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:18,160
will say yes and that case

1093
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:20,319
is just very strong and it's one of many

1094
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:22,800
where you know you talked about how

1095
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:25,920
people don't want to believe accounts

1096
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,800
you're

1097
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:28,319
at some point

1098
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:30,400
you either have to embrace that you know

1099
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:33,520
unanswerable question that i mentioned

1100
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:35,680
or just keep

1101
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:37,200
denying

1102
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:40,480
the accounts of increasingly of a larger

1103
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:42,800
and larger number of witnesses

1104
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:45,040
some of them very credible by any way

1105
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:46,720
that you measure it you know my father

1106
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:49,119
would say that it got very awkward for

1107
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:52,240
the air force to deny accounts

1108
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:55,200
of air force pilots who they themselves

1109
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:56,640
had trained

1110
00:42:01,750 --> 00:41:58,720
and now we've got you know remarkably

1111
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:01,760
more open public posture on the part of

1112
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:03,920
the navy and the pentagon thanks in part

1113
00:42:09,030 --> 00:42:06,720
to chris mellon and lou elizondo

1114
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:09,040
saying hey yes

1115
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:10,800
they don't call them ufos they call them

1116
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:13,200
uaps they exist

1117
00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:16,000
they're out there we're studying them

1118
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:18,880
we're concerned for the safety of our

1119
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:20,319
aviators

1120
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:22,400
and they may pose a risk to national

1121
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:25,119
security so here you have the official

1122
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:27,920
organs and knowledgeable departments of

1123
00:42:31,270 --> 00:42:30,400
the us government saying uh yeah they're

1124
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:31,280
real

1125
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,920
published now in the paper of record the

1126
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:35,280
new york times

1127
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:38,720
so it's really hard to deny them

1128
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:40,880
in in general and then you have when you

1129
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:42,839
dig into cases like

1130
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:46,720
pascagoula or lonnie zamora in socorro

1131
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:49,119
or father gill in

1132
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:52,000
papua new guinea and many other cases

1133
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:53,040
yes

1134
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:54,160
gerald

1135
00:42:58,790 --> 00:42:56,240
my father did believe father gill's

1136
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:58,800
sighting and father gill came to dinner

1137
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:01,359
and i remember you saying that yeah yeah

1138
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:03,440
and one of the things that struck me was

1139
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:05,760
here was a guy who was very intelligent

1140
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:08,240
he was an anglican priest in papua new

1141
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:10,640
guinea who had an amazing sighting where

1142
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:13,200
they're waving to the you know apparent

1143
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:15,680
reportedly waving to the

1144
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:17,119
the creatures

1145
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:19,920
who wave back and father gill was very

1146
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:21,200
intelligent

1147
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:23,599
he you know he came to chicago where we

1148
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:26,000
lived for an ecumenical religious

1149
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:27,839
conference not for

1150
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:30,800
to sell a ufo book and

1151
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:31,599
but

1152
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:33,920
he came to dinner at our house

1153
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:36,319
and he didn't sort of launch into his

1154
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:37,440
account

1155
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:40,400
but if you're a fairly well-known ufo

1156
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:42,720
witness and you come to dinner at the

1157
00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:44,480
heineck house

1158
00:43:50,390 --> 00:43:47,920
that's kind of the quid pro quo right so

1159
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:50,400
and i thought it'd be very intelligent

1160
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,359
very comfortable in his skin

1161
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:55,280
nothing to gain by reporting this it

1162
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:57,680
didn't help him in his you know

1163
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:00,000
in his priestly career

1164
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,880
and just very consistent over the years

1165
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:04,560
which is something that struck my father

1166
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:06,319
my father would ask people

1167
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:08,079
questions from slightly different points

1168
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:10,319
of view to see if he could find like

1169
00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:12,160
some daylight between their their

1170
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:14,000
varying accounts but he found him to be

1171
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:16,240
remarkably consistent and thought that

1172
00:44:20,069 --> 00:44:18,960
was a wonderful case that had multiple

1173
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:20,079
witnesses

1174
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:23,760
right right and i had heard someone talk

1175
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,960
about a similar case where they had this

1176
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:28,240
flashlight

1177
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:30,400
and they went made the signal up and

1178
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:31,359
down

1179
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:33,440
like that and the thing made a reaction

1180
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:35,520
up and down just like the father gill

1181
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:36,560
case

1182
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:38,720
and then the person was doing this and

1183
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:41,040
the thing made a re action like that

1184
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:42,319
and then all of a sudden he put his

1185
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:44,400
flashlight down and he started thinking

1186
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:46,079
up and down and the thing went up and

1187
00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:48,079
down

1188
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:49,359
wow that's like

1189
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:52,800
three layers of super cool ufo remote

1190
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:54,960
control

1191
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:57,520
flashlight

1192
00:45:02,230 --> 00:45:00,240
yeah so um what the point was that he

1193
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:02,240
was saying that it was it was

1194
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:03,599
had nothing to do with him moving the

1195
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:04,880
flashlight

1196
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:06,480
had to do with his thoughts of moving

1197
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:07,760
the flashlight

1198
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:10,480
so right i think at first

1199
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:13,680
for him it was probably far out enough

1200
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:15,119
that there happened seems to be a

1201
00:45:19,030 --> 00:45:16,720
correlation between

1202
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:19,040
a tool that he has and some object in

1203
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:20,240
the sky

1204
00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:22,319
and took him a little bit to realize

1205
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:24,640
that the tool was incidental

1206
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:27,200
right right and for those of you have

1207
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:28,800
who have not looked into the father gill

1208
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:30,880
case there's a great video of him

1209
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:33,839
talking about the whole case on youtube

1210
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:35,520
and that is one that i find you know

1211
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:37,920
very very good well i've not seen that i

1212
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:39,760
would love to see that oh i'll make a

1213
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:42,000
note uh please uh over there secretary

1214
00:45:46,870 --> 00:45:44,240
can you please make a note of that yes

1215
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:46,880
my secretary's on top of that so

1216
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:48,000
uh

1217
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,440
allagash is another one um i i love that

1218
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,280
that case i don't know how much you know

1219
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:55,119
about that case in particular but that

1220
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:58,160
was in the 70s did your father happen to

1221
00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:01,040
look into that and you know post blue

1222
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:02,319
book

1223
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:04,079
you know i'm not familiar with that case

1224
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:06,800
so i i don't know i'm sorry yeah okay

1225
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:09,040
it's a it's an it's up in up in maine

1226
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:12,800
and it it was for four guys art students

1227
00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:16,400
and uh quite a very convincing

1228
00:46:21,589 --> 00:46:18,800
um encounter that they didn't remember

1229
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:21,599
until years later they all forgot where

1230
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:23,040
do you know where in maine that was

1231
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,119
because i was just in maine last week

1232
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:27,040
oh you should come visit me that's where

1233
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:29,920
i live yeah so i was in i was in bethel

1234
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:32,880
for two days in western maine oh so

1235
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:34,720
that's ski country up there

1236
00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:36,000
yeah right

1237
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:38,319
sunday river all that right exactly

1238
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:42,160
right oh anyway um it's it's up further

1239
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:43,839
it's in the middle of nowhere called the

1240
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,720
allagash the allagash is is an area

1241
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,640
there's several lakes there's eagle lake

1242
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:50,880
and several lakes uh they had a sighting

1243
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:53,280
there they went out on their canoe they

1244
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,839
built a great big bonfire this light

1245
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:58,079
came over him and uh

1246
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:59,040
chuck

1247
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:00,160
uh

1248
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:02,240
flashed his flashlight at the

1249
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:03,680
at the craft

1250
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:04,800
and

1251
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:06,880
supposedly the thing went right over

1252
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,319
them and then they kind of didn't

1253
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,480
remember anything for years but it was

1254
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:12,000
really funny because they rode back to

1255
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:14,240
the shore and the fire was almost out

1256
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:16,240
and they built this big blazing bonfire

1257
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:18,000
so they could find it and it was just a

1258
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:20,000
couple minutes later then they all were

1259
00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:21,520
having dreams about this thing it's a

1260
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:23,200
really a great case

1261
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:26,319
to look into they had dreams and and um

1262
00:47:28,710 --> 00:47:27,280
then

1263
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:28,720
um

1264
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:29,920
jim

1265
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,880
he was injured in the hospital and they

1266
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,400
were bringing around books

1267
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:40,000
and one day they brought around whitley

1268
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:41,520
strieber's book with the alien on the

1269
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:43,040
front of it and he saw it and he freaked

1270
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:44,000
out

1271
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:45,839
and he and then he had the whole memory

1272
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:47,839
come back and they were interviewed

1273
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:50,240
separately and they all had the memory

1274
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,319
of being up on the craft and being uh

1275
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:54,720
scanned and you know moved their arms

1276
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:56,640
and joints moved all over the you know

1277
00:48:02,069 --> 00:47:59,520
things like that so it and they're all

1278
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:02,079
all their artwork changed you know and

1279
00:48:06,309 --> 00:48:04,720
one of them became a nasa scientist and

1280
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:06,319
he wasn't even good at math and became

1281
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:08,400
really good at math afterwards really

1282
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:12,160
yeah so yeah it's fascinating story one

1283
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:14,160
another another one that i can i

1284
00:48:17,109 --> 00:48:15,920
personally consider up there is one of

1285
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:17,119
the really great

1286
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:21,920
great uh ufos uh encounters out there

1287
00:48:25,510 --> 00:48:24,720
so yeah one one one to check out for

1288
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:25,520
sure

1289
00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:26,480
so

1290
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:28,640
um other other stories that you can

1291
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:30,720
remember and you know i did i did say uh

1292
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:32,160
we're going into break here in about

1293
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:33,680
seven minutes or so

1294
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:35,680
but um are there other stories that you

1295
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:37,760
remember at the table besides like

1296
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:40,160
calvin or were you kind of at the end of

1297
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,920
when your was your father slowing down

1298
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:43,280
in these cases

1299
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:45,359
um and no

1300
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:47,680
no he was still going strong

1301
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:50,559
you know my father was born in 1910

1302
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:53,520
and he died in 1986

1303
00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:57,119
so he came and went with halley's comet

1304
00:49:01,349 --> 00:48:58,720
which is a nice sort of

1305
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:01,359
book and life for an astronomer

1306
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:03,760
and until

1307
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:07,599
maybe late 1985 he was vibrant he was

1308
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:10,079
very healthy he had a very short

1309
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:12,960
fortunately morbidity period but he was

1310
00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:14,960
he was very sharp and and still

1311
00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:20,079
fascinated by ufos into 1985. wow wow

1312
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:22,000
and there was uh

1313
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:23,280
there was a

1314
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:26,079
um there had been a lot of waves do you

1315
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:28,800
remember when there were like waves uh

1316
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:30,960
you know i'm trying yeah flaps right

1317
00:49:35,270 --> 00:49:32,400
flaps yes

1318
00:49:37,349 --> 00:49:35,280
yeah so that that must have been pretty

1319
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:37,359
exciting during those times

1320
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,760
and yeah you know the 70s was

1321
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:41,520
interesting time

1322
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:45,119
the national enquirer was all over ufos

1323
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:46,880
and we had the movie close encounters

1324
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,720
which was really a

1325
00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:50,240
a bellwether

1326
00:49:56,309 --> 00:49:53,920
or a milestone right because it really

1327
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:56,319
gave a lot of people permission i think

1328
00:49:59,430 --> 00:49:57,359
to

1329
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:59,440
talk about the subject

1330
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:00,559
more

1331
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:02,559
seriously and honestly than before

1332
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:03,599
because

1333
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:05,440
most of

1334
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:07,760
the hollywood portrayals of aliens and

1335
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:10,079
all that before were evil ray guns and

1336
00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:11,920
things like that and body snatchers and

1337
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:12,880
all that

1338
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:16,480
and you know this was a big

1339
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:18,720
you know tent pole movie

1340
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:21,440
that portrayed aliens in a very friendly

1341
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:23,440
way a little bit mysterious but very

1342
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:24,640
friendly

1343
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,319
and really focused on again the sort of

1344
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:30,720
aspects of an experience that are not

1345
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:32,079
the actual sighting but this

1346
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:34,319
communication and this obsession

1347
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:37,040
of you know ongoing communication before

1348
00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:39,839
during and after the sighting so that

1349
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:40,960
really

1350
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:42,400
i think helped

1351
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:45,440
move the needle a lot on the level

1352
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:48,319
of and the quality of public discourse

1353
00:50:54,309 --> 00:50:51,359
right right and did you ever personally

1354
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:54,319
meet steven spielberg oh yes yeah okay

1355
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:55,200
um

1356
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:58,559
both during filming of close encounters

1357
00:51:01,670 --> 00:51:00,319
and then later

1358
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:01,680
you know i worked on a bunch of movies

1359
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:03,839
and one of the movies was tintin which

1360
00:51:06,390 --> 00:51:05,119
he directed

1361
00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:06,400
and

1362
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:10,960
our studio

1363
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:13,920
and we had name tags with our pictures

1364
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:16,000
and michael kahn who was steven

1365
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:18,880
spielberg's long time editor

1366
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:21,280
is just walking down the hallway and

1367
00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:24,240
glances and sees my name tag and says hi

1368
00:51:28,870 --> 00:51:26,079
nick hi nick

1369
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:28,880
are you related to jay allen heineck i

1370
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:30,880
said that's my fault and he goes

1371
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:33,599
oh my gosh he was a technical advisor on

1372
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:35,680
close encounters and steven loved him

1373
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:38,640
does steven know if you're here i said i

1374
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,040
i really don't know if stephen knows a

1375
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,440
lot about me or where or my whereabouts

1376
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:45,760
he said i'll tell him so that was a

1377
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:47,520
friday afternoon

1378
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,319
and bright and early monday morning uh a

1379
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:52,480
pa comes to me and says uh paula stephen

1380
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:54,559
would like to talk to you

1381
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:55,760
so okay

1382
00:52:02,230 --> 00:51:58,240
so i go to the set and i talk with

1383
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:02,240
stephen and kathy kennedy his long time

1384
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:04,079
producing partner who's also the twin

1385
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:06,240
sister of connie kennedy who i've worked

1386
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:09,280
with for years um about ufos and close

1387
00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:11,920
encounters and we had a grand old time

1388
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:14,720
and then i said hey uh my brother joel

1389
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:17,119
is in town could i come back on the set

1390
00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:18,800
and bring joel this afternoon they said

1391
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:19,760
of course

1392
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:21,760
so we reconvened for another hour or so

1393
00:52:27,349 --> 00:52:24,720
that afternoon with joel

1394
00:52:30,549 --> 00:52:27,359
and joel told steven what i think is a

1395
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:30,559
really heartwarming story about how

1396
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:33,040
when he won his oscar

1397
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:35,440
for what dreams may come and was very

1398
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:37,119
nervous on stage

1399
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:38,720
looked down in the audience and the

1400
00:52:43,990 --> 00:52:41,680
front row sees steven spielberg smiling

1401
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:44,000
at him and that really helped sort of

1402
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:47,520
ground and center him how about that wow

1403
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:48,880
wow that's great

1404
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:51,599
that um that

1405
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:53,760
close encounters are the third kind

1406
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:56,160
um your your father really coined that

1407
00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:58,480
phrase close encounters

1408
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:01,920
and did was there ever other awards did

1409
00:53:06,150 --> 00:53:03,839
he ever have other terms

1410
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:06,160
before that or or

1411
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:08,160
that he used prior to that

1412
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:10,000
oh like yeah like when he was

1413
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:13,520
workshopping the concept i don't know

1414
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:16,559
if he had ones before that um

1415
00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:18,640
i think he'd be gratified to know that

1416
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:20,960
people still use that classification

1417
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:22,559
they've added you know four five six

1418
00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:24,640
seven eight nine who knows what else

1419
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:27,680
um because you know for for my father's

1420
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:29,119
a scientist

1421
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:33,670
what he wanted to do

1422
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:36,160
even before ufos was sort of take a

1423
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:39,280
flashlight to the edges of known science

1424
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:41,200
and just push the bubble a little bit

1425
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:43,040
further and

1426
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:46,400
to do that with ufos he had what i think

1427
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:50,160
is the crucial insight that he wasn't

1428
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:52,240
studying ufos

1429
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:55,040
he was studying ufo reports

1430
00:54:00,829 --> 00:53:58,640
and part of that meant that he wasn't

1431
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:00,839
spending so much time on

1432
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:04,160
astrophysical concepts but actually

1433
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:07,440
touchy feely talking to people which he

1434
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:10,480
was not trained for as an astrophysicist

1435
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:12,240
sure so there's a whole different sort

1436
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:13,119
of

1437
00:54:18,870 --> 00:54:15,680
uh branch for him to go down but when he

1438
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:18,880
realized that sort of

1439
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:20,559
level of remove

1440
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:22,960
that he's dealing with reports that's

1441
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:25,040
when he realized it would be very

1442
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:27,119
helpful to come up with a

1443
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:30,240
lingua franca a classification system

1444
00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:32,480
that people could use around the world

1445
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:34,079
to better compare

1446
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:37,280
you know interstellar apples to apples

1447
00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:39,040
and um

1448
00:54:43,109 --> 00:54:41,920
so that seems to have stuck and and and

1449
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:43,119
been useful

1450
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:45,040
he coined other phrases as well and one

1451
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:47,760
of my favorites is high strangeness

1452
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:49,599
which is one of that one

1453
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:52,240
yeah strangers i love that which is a me

1454
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:54,480
too and you can you know you immediately

1455
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,599
understand

1456
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:57,200
what it means

1457
00:55:00,789 --> 00:54:59,200
but he had a lot of very interesting

1458
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:00,799
turns of phrase

1459
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:03,599
and ways to sort of classify

1460
00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:06,640
this you know really bizarre phenomena

1461
00:55:10,230 --> 00:55:08,799
great maybe we'll talk a little bit more

1462
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,240
about that on the other side of the

1463
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:12,319
break it's time for us to go into it

1464
00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:14,880
right now we'll be back in exactly three

1465
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:15,760
minutes

1466
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:19,040
so hang in there over at kg r a radio

1467
00:55:24,150 --> 00:55:21,280
with the commercials and we'll be right

1468
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:26,630
all right joe welcome to the show and uh

1469
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:28,240
i'm excited to hear about your sighting

1470
00:55:33,109 --> 00:55:30,960
you have called into my show in the past

1471
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:33,119
but this is yeah yeah this is something

1472
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:36,160
that's happened since that time right

1473
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:39,200
yeah so i had called in um early in

1474
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:41,520
august and a few days later i had this

1475
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:43,440
sighting uh coincidentally i was in

1476
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,839
mammoth lakes california

1477
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:47,680
just got done with a backpacking trip

1478
00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:49,760
and this is over the eastern sierra

1479
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:51,839
nevada mountains um

1480
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:54,000
kind of up towards yosemite

1481
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:55,200
so

1482
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:57,200
uh it was the last day that we were out

1483
00:56:00,789 --> 00:55:59,040
there i decided i was going to do some

1484
00:56:03,109 --> 00:56:00,799
stargazing because you can see the milky

1485
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:03,119
way galaxy and everything and turned off

1486
00:56:08,069 --> 00:56:05,599
all the lights went outside and i

1487
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:08,079
noticed immediately this bright

1488
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:09,760
green blue

1489
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:12,160
star below saturn

1490
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:14,000
and that was looking out i would say

1491
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,760
probably like south

1492
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,880
west

1493
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:18,480
um

1494
00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:21,440
approximately 9 30 p.m

1495
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:23,680
so pretty dark outside and it was bright

1496
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:25,599
if you're looking at jupiter or venus in

1497
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:27,520
the night sky right now it was brighter

1498
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:28,880
than that

1499
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:31,440
and uh it was green and it was not

1500
00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:32,480
moving

1501
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:34,400
and i watched it for about a minute and

1502
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:36,319
then it started to move slowly to the

1503
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:38,880
left and then it sped up and the

1504
00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:41,040
brightness increased in intensity and it

1505
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:42,720
shot what i would describe as like a

1506
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:45,440
small star out of the bottom of it

1507
00:56:49,430 --> 00:56:47,440
so it just like shot this little light

1508
00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:49,440
that just went straight down

1509
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:51,920
behind the mountain range and then

1510
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:54,000
it kind of slowed down

1511
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,240
and it would start to move left a little

1512
00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:58,000
bit and then kind of drift to the right

1513
00:57:02,390 --> 00:56:59,760
and then we kind of jump upwards and

1514
00:57:04,230 --> 00:57:02,400
then drift back down so it did that i

1515
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:04,240
would say for

1516
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:05,280
i don't know

1517
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:07,040
four to five minutes and at that point

1518
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:08,960
my mom came outside and she was looking

1519
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:12,000
at it with me so she was solid too too

1520
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:13,839
and then i actually went up the stairs

1521
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:15,760
of the condo above us there was no one

1522
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:17,839
in there luckily but it had kind of

1523
00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:21,200
drifted below the um like horizon below

1524
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:22,480
the tree line so i had to go up the

1525
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:24,480
stairs to look at it and then i watched

1526
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:25,760
it get

1527
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:27,119
dimmer to the point where you almost

1528
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:28,319
couldn't see it

1529
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:30,400
and then it would get bright again

1530
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:32,160
uh to the point where it was like

1531
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:33,839
brighter than jupiter again it would get

1532
00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:35,680
dimmer again and did that for i don't

1533
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:37,440
know i watched it for maybe 10 15 more

1534
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:40,079
minutes and i just got bored

1535
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:41,920
you know yeah but i talked about that

1536
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:43,599
you probably heard me talk about that

1537
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:45,760
there's a number of people that

1538
00:57:50,870 --> 00:57:47,920
uh a friend that are visiting with right

1539
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:50,880
now her mother got bored watching this

1540
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:53,520
amazing ufo outside after a while

1541
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:56,000
yeah this thing take off

1542
00:57:59,430 --> 00:57:57,599
yeah i know it's it it's quite

1543
00:58:01,670 --> 00:57:59,440
interesting i didn't notice it take off

1544
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:01,680
or do anything crazy i'm not sure if it

1545
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:04,960
was getting farther away or just getting

1546
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:05,839
you know

1547
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:07,440
dimmer and dimmer i

1548
00:58:10,789 --> 00:58:09,200
couldn't really tell but it definitely

1549
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:10,799
seemed like it was getting farther and

1550
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:25,750
all right welcome back that uh if you

1551
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:27,280
check our

1552
00:58:31,190 --> 00:58:28,960
youtube channel tomorrow there'll be the

1553
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:31,200
the full interview talking about some

1554
00:58:34,870 --> 00:58:32,079
other

1555
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:34,880
um encounters that he had over the years

1556
00:58:38,470 --> 00:58:36,559
there we go again encounters i'm not

1557
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:38,480
sure what type of encounters but i'm

1558
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:40,640
with paul heineck and i'll bring him

1559
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:43,200
back in uh paul um

1560
00:58:48,549 --> 00:58:45,920
so this is pretty exciting i i do want

1561
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:48,559
to say uh this also about

1562
00:58:52,309 --> 00:58:51,359
that last um video what made me think

1563
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:52,319
that

1564
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:57,680
just now

1565
00:59:02,309 --> 00:58:59,920
is fascinating i i would have kind of

1566
00:59:05,109 --> 00:59:02,319
discounted the whole thing until he said

1567
00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:05,119
this light dropped from the bottom from

1568
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:06,160
this

1569
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:07,760
object and went down and that that's

1570
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,160
something you hear about or i've

1571
00:59:14,309 --> 00:59:12,319
actually seen online and you know when i

1572
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:14,319
see these videos again on youtube i

1573
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:15,599
don't know what to trust and not to

1574
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:17,920
trust but there are a number of videos

1575
00:59:21,990 --> 00:59:20,000
on youtube where something drops or

1576
00:59:23,190 --> 00:59:22,000
sometimes multiple things come out of

1577
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:23,200
these

1578
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:25,280
things yeah right

1579
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,359
so drones who knows what the heck they

1580
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:29,520
are i mean i don't know if a drone can

1581
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:31,440
do that but um further on in the

1582
00:59:36,069 --> 00:59:33,200
conversation he does talk that he was in

1583
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:36,079
a very remote area and it would be um

1584
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:38,000
very strange if someone had a drone in

1585
00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:40,000
that area in particular

1586
00:59:43,829 --> 00:59:41,440
but

1587
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:43,839
so we we have to deal with a lot these

1588
00:59:49,829 --> 00:59:47,280
days as you know paul that it's not just

1589
00:59:52,390 --> 00:59:49,839
like the simple ufos that are flying

1590
00:59:54,630 --> 00:59:52,400
around we have um you know there's the

1591
00:59:56,549 --> 00:59:54,640
drone issue that's one i mean i had a

1592
00:59:58,710 --> 00:59:56,559
sighting that i thought for sure was the

1593
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:58,720
ufo for a while i sent it off to uh

1594
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:01,040
photo analyst mark the antonio friend

1595
01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:03,200
astronomer and uh

1596
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:05,839
he said well it acts like a drone it

1597
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,920
looks like a drone it might be a drone

1598
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:09,599
type of thing

1599
01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:11,440
um

1600
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:13,280
but it was doing a couple weird things

1601
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:15,839
but you know you can be deceived by

1602
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:17,520
whatever it is it's very windy that

1603
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:19,920
night you know the light was really

1604
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:22,000
bright and then dark and it zigzagged

1605
01:00:24,870 --> 01:00:23,119
all over the place but it was most

1606
01:00:27,190 --> 01:00:24,880
likely a drone that's one thing we have

1607
01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:27,200
to deal with chinese lanterns there are

1608
01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:29,359
so many people that think they see ufos

1609
01:00:34,710 --> 01:00:32,240
when there's chinese chinese lanterns um

1610
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:34,720
these things weren't around when your

1611
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:36,960
father was looking in to this

1612
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:38,640
topic

1613
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:40,559
but there were some

1614
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:43,119
strange encounters you know people i i

1615
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:44,960
actually really like the ones that are

1616
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:46,400
really different

1617
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:48,640
i don't know how you feel about that but

1618
01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:50,319
when they're like they don't sound like

1619
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:52,480
anything else i love those

1620
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:54,720
those type of encounters well you know i

1621
01:00:59,670 --> 01:00:57,760
do dmt so no kind of ufo experience is

1622
01:01:02,710 --> 01:00:59,680
going to throw me for a loop

1623
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:02,720
yeah well that's right that's right and

1624
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:05,040
do you have people like that will

1625
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:06,559
approach you now

1626
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:09,359
and say oh i know your father who he was

1627
01:01:13,670 --> 01:01:11,440
or whatever and let me tell you about

1628
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:13,680
what i saw

1629
01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:14,880
so yeah

1630
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:16,960
you heard some good ones

1631
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:17,760
well

1632
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:20,720
you know all of us kids

1633
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:22,720
are our ports of entry for people who

1634
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:25,280
feel compelled to reach out because

1635
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:27,599
you know my father was a

1636
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:30,480
sympathetic person who who understood

1637
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:32,000
that

1638
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:33,520
for a lot of people he's talking to

1639
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:35,440
whether the experience was objectively

1640
01:01:38,549 --> 01:01:37,520
real or not

1641
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:38,559
felt

1642
01:01:44,470 --> 01:01:41,040
that it was real and had gone through a

1643
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:44,480
very traumatic experience so he was very

1644
01:01:47,829 --> 01:01:45,760
patient

1645
01:01:50,230 --> 01:01:47,839
and understanding

1646
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:50,240
i would say sympathetic not empathetic

1647
01:01:54,309 --> 01:01:53,040
with them and they and they felt that

1648
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:54,319
they felt that he was kind of like a

1649
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:55,760
safe harbor

1650
01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:57,280
that they could

1651
01:02:02,309 --> 01:01:59,760
bring forth this deep dart secret that

1652
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:02,319
they have you know buried for years

1653
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:03,920
and

1654
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,559
the first time it was maybe at an alien

1655
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:16,559
con conference which is massive you know

1656
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:18,160
thousands of people

1657
01:02:21,750 --> 01:02:19,200
and

1658
01:02:25,270 --> 01:02:21,760
after i was done on stage i was walking

1659
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:25,280
off stage and 30 40 people rush up to me

1660
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:27,359
um from the audience

1661
01:02:30,789 --> 01:02:29,039
and

1662
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:30,799
i really didn't know what to make of it

1663
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:31,920
and

1664
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:35,200
it was because they saw me as a conduit

1665
01:02:39,510 --> 01:02:36,559
to my father

1666
01:02:41,029 --> 01:02:39,520
and that here is permission

1667
01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:41,039
and

1668
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:43,280
somebody that they they believed would

1669
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:46,240
give them a you know a sympathetic ear

1670
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,960
that they could talk about it in comfort

1671
01:02:53,029 --> 01:02:51,119
and i could see what it must have been

1672
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:53,039
like for my father

1673
01:02:56,549 --> 01:02:54,799
to sort of broadcast hey i'm an

1674
01:02:57,430 --> 01:02:56,559
astrophysicist

1675
01:02:58,309 --> 01:02:57,440
and

1676
01:03:05,190 --> 01:02:58,319
i

1677
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:05,200
so we've had a lot of people come up to

1678
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:08,400
us um emailing telephoning

1679
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:11,200
mailing and and in person

1680
01:03:14,829 --> 01:03:12,720
really feeling

1681
01:03:16,950 --> 01:03:14,839
uh comfortable and also sometimes

1682
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:16,960
compelled to share

1683
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:18,720
one story or another

1684
01:03:21,750 --> 01:03:19,520
yeah

1685
01:03:23,750 --> 01:03:21,760
i i love i love the stories that's why

1686
01:03:26,150 --> 01:03:23,760
i'm recording with people now

1687
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:26,160
um that listen to the show there's their

1688
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,680
story some of them have been really

1689
01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:29,760
really amazing

1690
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:32,319
so this one this uh text i'm putting up

1691
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:33,920
here we already we already talked about

1692
01:03:38,470 --> 01:03:36,720
that um earlier on um if you didn't

1693
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:38,480
catch it but you think it was around the

1694
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:40,000
socorro case

1695
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:42,240
when your father really kind of went

1696
01:03:46,870 --> 01:03:45,039
over to the other side so to speak

1697
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:46,880
yeah i i would

1698
01:03:51,910 --> 01:03:48,960
narrow the parameters a little bit by

1699
01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:51,920
that point i think he had already

1700
01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:53,359
accepted

1701
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:56,480
the ufo phenomena as legitimate right

1702
01:04:01,349 --> 01:03:58,559
we've been working on it for

1703
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:01,359
maybe 14 years or so

1704
01:04:06,710 --> 01:04:04,480
but it was the zamora case

1705
01:04:08,309 --> 01:04:06,720
that made him feel comfortable

1706
01:04:11,829 --> 01:04:08,319
with the

1707
01:04:13,910 --> 01:04:11,839
alien beings aspect not just an object

1708
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:13,920
so that in particular

1709
01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:14,880
jacques

1710
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:16,240
points to

1711
01:04:20,309 --> 01:04:18,480
as the sort of signal case or the straw

1712
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:20,319
that broke the camel's back

1713
01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:22,240
that made my father much more

1714
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:25,039
comfortable talking about such cases

1715
01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:27,760
and you know i think part of is that

1716
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:30,720
i i think my father viewed the world

1717
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:34,319
in terms of ufos as having three main

1718
01:04:39,510 --> 01:04:36,960
constituencies one is

1719
01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:39,520
the military and the government

1720
01:04:43,510 --> 01:04:42,000
another is mainstream science which is

1721
01:04:45,430 --> 01:04:43,520
really his

1722
01:04:46,390 --> 01:04:45,440
you know wheelhouse

1723
01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:46,400
and then

1724
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:48,960
call them ufo believers

1725
01:04:52,950 --> 01:04:51,839
and i challenge you to think of three

1726
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:52,960
more

1727
01:04:59,270 --> 01:04:55,839
different entities or groups than

1728
01:05:00,069 --> 01:04:59,280
military say astronomers and ufo fans

1729
01:05:02,309 --> 01:05:00,079
right

1730
01:05:03,510 --> 01:05:02,319
he felt he had to keep each of these

1731
01:05:06,789 --> 01:05:03,520
groups

1732
01:05:09,270 --> 01:05:06,799
mildly displeased and then he's probably

1733
01:05:11,109 --> 01:05:09,280
doing about the right balancing act

1734
01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:11,119
between three groups who want very

1735
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:12,960
different things

1736
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:15,359
isn't that funny that's pretty funny uh

1737
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:18,480
the book that just came out a re-release

1738
01:05:23,349 --> 01:05:21,200
of the high neck ufo report i'm not sure

1739
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:23,359
was that the original title of that book

1740
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:25,280
in 1977

1741
01:05:29,109 --> 01:05:26,240
yes

1742
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:29,119
okay and did it also have

1743
01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:30,160
um

1744
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:32,960
the line the sub line of the project

1745
01:05:37,430 --> 01:05:35,039
blue book cover up was that in in there

1746
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:37,440
as well at that time no that

1747
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:41,359
that is a a new addition to the cover

1748
01:05:45,829 --> 01:05:42,240
okay

1749
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:45,839
and so this is being re-released uh a

1750
01:05:48,829 --> 01:05:47,440
book that i have not read that i really

1751
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:48,839
would love to read

1752
01:05:53,430 --> 01:05:50,799
um

1753
01:05:55,589 --> 01:05:53,440
did your did did your father actually

1754
01:05:57,750 --> 01:05:55,599
say that um

1755
01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:57,760
come out and say this was there was a

1756
01:06:02,950 --> 01:06:00,640
lot of covers up cover-ups in project

1757
01:06:04,950 --> 01:06:02,960
blue book

1758
01:06:06,390 --> 01:06:04,960
yeah you know

1759
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:06,400
i don't think it was my father but i

1760
01:06:11,190 --> 01:06:08,240
think he liked this phrase

1761
01:06:13,510 --> 01:06:11,200
that someone once called project blue

1762
01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:13,520
book which was the air force's

1763
01:06:17,349 --> 01:06:15,200
official

1764
01:06:18,549 --> 01:06:17,359
department to study ufo reports which

1765
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:18,559
was really not

1766
01:06:22,150 --> 01:06:20,400
looking to get at the bottom of things

1767
01:06:26,309 --> 01:06:22,160
but really more of a

1768
01:06:28,549 --> 01:06:26,319
pr exercise to tamp down public hysteria

1769
01:06:29,349 --> 01:06:28,559
and they because you know project blue

1770
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:29,359
book

1771
01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:31,520
as as reflected in the tv show of the

1772
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:32,880
same name

1773
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:34,640
really wasn't about

1774
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:36,880
reverse engineering propulsion systems

1775
01:06:39,510 --> 01:06:38,160
or

1776
01:06:41,029 --> 01:06:39,520
getting to the bottom of the phenomena

1777
01:06:44,549 --> 01:06:41,039
they just wanted to

1778
01:06:47,349 --> 01:06:44,559
calm people down and explain every case

1779
01:06:48,549 --> 01:06:47,359
and even with that very strong mandate

1780
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:48,559
from the top

1781
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:49,680
of the

1782
01:06:54,950 --> 01:06:52,319
12 000 or so cases that they officially

1783
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:54,960
investigated they still couldn't explain

1784
01:06:59,750 --> 01:06:57,520
5 which is about the same batting

1785
01:07:01,829 --> 01:06:59,760
average around the world and i find that

1786
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:01,839
fascinating so

1787
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:03,200
somebody once

1788
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:05,280
and because they would always explain

1789
01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:07,520
things and that was the tension between

1790
01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:09,920
most of the air force directors and my

1791
01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:12,640
father being the scientific consultant

1792
01:07:17,349 --> 01:07:14,640
of the air force just wanted

1793
01:07:19,270 --> 01:07:17,359
explanations they didn't want him to

1794
01:07:22,870 --> 01:07:19,280
get to the bottom of it they wanted this

1795
01:07:24,630 --> 01:07:22,880
professor with his academic gravitas to

1796
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:24,640
explain things away

1797
01:07:30,789 --> 01:07:27,280
and so someone referred to project blue

1798
01:07:33,829 --> 01:07:30,799
book as the society for the explanation

1799
01:07:37,349 --> 01:07:33,839
of the uninvestigated yeah

1800
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:37,359
yeah yeah how about that and well do you

1801
01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:39,520
think that's what the former programs

1802
01:07:44,309 --> 01:07:41,359
were doing to grunge

1803
01:07:45,190 --> 01:07:44,319
and uh what was the other one sign

1804
01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:45,200
yeah

1805
01:07:49,910 --> 01:07:47,760
project so i think i think it sort of

1806
01:07:50,789 --> 01:07:49,920
shifted the earliest one was project

1807
01:07:53,109 --> 01:07:50,799
sign

1808
01:07:56,470 --> 01:07:53,119
and that was actually

1809
01:07:58,470 --> 01:07:56,480
more open and there is the controversial

1810
01:08:01,910 --> 01:07:58,480
you know estimate of the situation from

1811
01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:01,920
1948 that purports to be

1812
01:08:06,470 --> 01:08:04,559
um a report that says yes this is real

1813
01:08:08,470 --> 01:08:06,480
we don't know what to do about it

1814
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,480
project grudge kind of went back and

1815
01:08:11,430 --> 01:08:10,400
said no no nothing to see here folks go

1816
01:08:13,510 --> 01:08:11,440
away

1817
01:08:16,630 --> 01:08:13,520
and project blue book was

1818
01:08:19,269 --> 01:08:16,640
just a little bit better than that um

1819
01:08:21,590 --> 01:08:19,279
again especially after 1953 with the

1820
01:08:24,630 --> 01:08:21,600
robertson panel right and the air

1821
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:24,640
intelligence service squadron which was

1822
01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:26,400
if any

1823
01:08:31,590 --> 01:08:28,799
the entity that would go out to crash

1824
01:08:34,870 --> 01:08:31,600
sites to really find what's going on and

1825
01:08:36,390 --> 01:08:34,880
what probably in my mind spawned the

1826
01:08:38,149 --> 01:08:36,400
men in black

1827
01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:38,159
but at that point project blue book

1828
01:08:44,950 --> 01:08:41,600
really was just a

1829
01:08:47,749 --> 01:08:44,960
an awareness and a belief

1830
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:47,759
engine as opposed to a

1831
01:08:52,709 --> 01:08:49,839
bona fide scientific

1832
01:08:53,470 --> 01:08:52,719
investigation department so at the very

1833
01:08:56,870 --> 01:08:53,480
end

1834
01:08:57,669 --> 01:08:56,880
1969 or 19 was it 1969

1835
01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:57,679
well

1836
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:00,000
the actual official date was 1970 but

1837
01:09:05,669 --> 01:09:03,279
the real practical unwinding was 1969

1838
01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:05,679
yeah was was your dad there to the

1839
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:07,520
bitter end

1840
01:09:10,149 --> 01:09:08,960
yeah bitter egg is a good way to put it

1841
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:10,159
and it was

1842
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:12,080
you know it was the condom committee and

1843
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:13,440
yeah you know

1844
01:09:18,630 --> 01:09:15,679
it was the

1845
01:09:21,749 --> 01:09:18,640
the the the swamp gas case

1846
01:09:24,470 --> 01:09:21,759
in michigan in 1966

1847
01:09:25,269 --> 01:09:24,480
not my father's you know favorite time

1848
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:25,279
where

1849
01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:29,040
the press ran with a quote of his

1850
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:30,640
partially explained in case of swamp

1851
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:33,600
gases that it's all swamp gas well that

1852
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:36,480
rankled the local congressman gerald

1853
01:09:40,390 --> 01:09:38,239
ford who of course went on to be

1854
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:40,400
president who pulled strings and said

1855
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:42,239
you know i'm tired of this we need you

1856
01:09:44,950 --> 01:09:43,120
know

1857
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:44,960
something to happen here and that

1858
01:09:50,229 --> 01:09:48,080
indirectly led to the condon committee

1859
01:09:51,910 --> 01:09:50,239
in 1969

1860
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:51,920
you know the air force always wanted to

1861
01:09:58,709 --> 01:09:55,920
sort of hide under air cover of academic

1862
01:10:00,070 --> 01:09:58,719
you know credibility so they had this

1863
01:10:02,630 --> 01:10:00,080
panel of professors like with the

1864
01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:02,640
robertson panel and

1865
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:03,440
what's

1866
01:10:07,830 --> 01:10:05,280
and that basically put an end to project

1867
01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:07,840
bluebook by saying there's nothing here

1868
01:10:11,990 --> 01:10:09,440
but the

1869
01:10:14,709 --> 01:10:12,000
conclusion of the report

1870
01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:14,719
doesn't even match the data in the

1871
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:16,960
report the data in the report that was

1872
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:19,760
cherry picked is fairly convincing

1873
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:21,760
but the conclusion of the report because

1874
01:10:25,910 --> 01:10:23,520
it was jerry-rigged

1875
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:25,920
doesn't even reflect the strength of the

1876
01:10:29,110 --> 01:10:28,320
data in their own report but that was

1877
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:29,120
the

1878
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:32,400
decided to

1879
01:10:35,669 --> 01:10:34,560
disband project blue book although as we

1880
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,679
know now

1881
01:10:39,189 --> 01:10:37,840
with atip and others there's been

1882
01:10:40,630 --> 01:10:39,199
ongoing

1883
01:10:42,950 --> 01:10:40,640
admitted

1884
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:42,960
investigations of ufos

1885
01:10:47,110 --> 01:10:45,520
right and

1886
01:10:49,590 --> 01:10:47,120
what do you think about what's going on

1887
01:10:51,669 --> 01:10:49,600
now do you think that this is more

1888
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:51,679
serious or do you think it's partially

1889
01:10:55,590 --> 01:10:53,440
window dressing and maybe more of the

1890
01:10:57,669 --> 01:10:55,600
same will happen

1891
01:11:01,110 --> 01:10:57,679
probably both um

1892
01:11:02,149 --> 01:11:01,120
you know at this point

1893
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:02,159
having

1894
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:04,880
seen so many freedom of information act

1895
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:09,600
requests and heard so many stories and

1896
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:12,000
waited with baited breath upon what this

1897
01:11:17,189 --> 01:11:14,640
or that government agency would do

1898
01:11:19,350 --> 01:11:17,199
i really just don't care anymore um

1899
01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:19,360
you know you and i and probably

1900
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:22,800
all or most of the people watching

1901
01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:25,280
accept the phenomena as real

1902
01:11:30,310 --> 01:11:27,520
we don't need the us government to tell

1903
01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:30,320
us anything that we don't know

1904
01:11:32,149 --> 01:11:31,360
and

1905
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:32,159
so

1906
01:11:37,110 --> 01:11:35,199
what they choose to admit and why

1907
01:11:38,790 --> 01:11:37,120
and the subterfuge and the

1908
01:11:40,709 --> 01:11:38,800
disinformation

1909
01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:40,719
i just

1910
01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:42,960
stopped really caring much about what

1911
01:11:48,229 --> 01:11:44,640
they do because

1912
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:48,239
i don't think that they are going to

1913
01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:50,640
i'd be surprised if they release

1914
01:11:54,790 --> 01:11:52,400
information any more compelling than

1915
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:54,800
they already have i don't think it's in

1916
01:11:59,270 --> 01:11:57,120
their interest and frankly if i was in

1917
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:59,280
the pentagon i don't think i would

1918
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:01,120
release information i think i would hold

1919
01:12:06,790 --> 01:12:05,120
on to it for military advantage and also

1920
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:06,800
in my perception

1921
01:12:12,310 --> 01:12:09,120
as a general to protect the

1922
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:12,320
fabric of national security overall

1923
01:12:17,110 --> 01:12:15,360
my my thoughts are and it's just just an

1924
01:12:19,590 --> 01:12:17,120
opinion

1925
01:12:21,910 --> 01:12:19,600
and i've said this before is that

1926
01:12:23,510 --> 01:12:21,920
they prob possibly know a little bit

1927
01:12:25,189 --> 01:12:23,520
more than we do but they're probably

1928
01:12:28,630 --> 01:12:25,199
just as baffled

1929
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:28,640
as everyone else um yeah

1930
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:30,480
yeah i i don't

1931
01:12:33,510 --> 01:12:31,920
i don't know i don't think it's a given

1932
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:33,520
that they have

1933
01:12:37,590 --> 01:12:35,840
reverse engineered crafts for years and

1934
01:12:39,910 --> 01:12:37,600
have bodies i i don't know those are

1935
01:12:42,790 --> 01:12:39,920
hard secrets to keep but i think you're

1936
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,800
right that no matter what they have

1937
01:12:47,350 --> 01:12:44,880
they're probably even more baffled than

1938
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:47,360
we are because they see even more

1939
01:12:52,709 --> 01:12:50,159
stranger things and look if the us

1940
01:12:55,510 --> 01:12:52,719
government had

1941
01:12:57,270 --> 01:12:55,520
successfully reverse engineered

1942
01:13:00,470 --> 01:12:57,280
propulsion systems

1943
01:13:03,110 --> 01:13:00,480
since san antonio 1945 and roswell in

1944
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:03,120
1947 in other cases

1945
01:13:07,390 --> 01:13:05,040
you'd think they'd have used it by now

1946
01:13:10,709 --> 01:13:07,400
but we don't see that kind of

1947
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:10,719
overwhelming military superiority and

1948
01:13:15,669 --> 01:13:13,440
it's hard for me to think that

1949
01:13:18,550 --> 01:13:15,679
a military like the us

1950
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:18,560
is going to just sit there and not use

1951
01:13:22,390 --> 01:13:20,400
something that would just sort of you

1952
01:13:24,470 --> 01:13:22,400
know be game over

1953
01:13:27,669 --> 01:13:24,480
uh yeah i've heard someone claim that

1954
01:13:30,830 --> 01:13:27,679
fiber optics came from the roswell crash

1955
01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:30,840
that's a that's a good theory

1956
01:13:33,910 --> 01:13:32,800
yeah i don't know

1957
01:13:35,830 --> 01:13:33,920
you know okay

1958
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:35,840
at least they're commercializing it but

1959
01:13:40,790 --> 01:13:38,560
not you know using it to pound the the

1960
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:40,800
russians and chinese into submission

1961
01:13:44,390 --> 01:13:42,640
well of course that's what we do first

1962
01:13:46,070 --> 01:13:44,400
thing that's what we'd want to do that's

1963
01:13:48,709 --> 01:13:46,080
what i would do right if i'm a general

1964
01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:48,719
and you tell me hey uh general we've got

1965
01:13:54,630 --> 01:13:51,920
anti-gravity i'm going to use that stuff

1966
01:13:55,990 --> 01:13:54,640
of course yeah and so that kind of goes

1967
01:13:58,630 --> 01:13:56,000
against the argument you hear all the

1968
01:13:59,350 --> 01:13:58,640
time a lot of people skeptics are and i

1969
01:14:08,470 --> 01:13:59,360
i

1970
01:14:10,070 --> 01:14:08,480
they're you know black projects that we

1971
01:14:12,070 --> 01:14:10,080
don't know about or whatever

1972
01:14:13,350 --> 01:14:12,080
anti-gravity but they always

1973
01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:13,360
forget about

1974
01:14:17,750 --> 01:14:15,120
people seeing these things you know 50

1975
01:14:20,310 --> 01:14:17,760
years ago and if something was

1976
01:14:22,229 --> 01:14:20,320
out there 50 years ago there's no way

1977
01:14:24,630 --> 01:14:22,239
that it could be under wraps all all

1978
01:14:27,189 --> 01:14:24,640
those years in my opinion right i mean

1979
01:14:29,350 --> 01:14:27,199
it's certainly possible um but

1980
01:14:31,990 --> 01:14:29,360
for the secrets not to come out

1981
01:14:34,550 --> 01:14:32,000
and for that technology not to be

1982
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:34,560
demonstrably used to our national

1983
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:36,080
advantage

1984
01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:37,840
either way you look at it it's hard to

1985
01:14:42,870 --> 01:14:40,000
understand um

1986
01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:42,880
yes there are some great cases

1987
01:14:47,430 --> 01:14:44,800
where the government seems to have

1988
01:14:49,030 --> 01:14:47,440
swooped in and collected

1989
01:14:50,790 --> 01:14:49,040
artifacts

1990
01:14:53,510 --> 01:14:50,800
saucers etc

1991
01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:53,520
but we just don't see what would seem to

1992
01:14:58,870 --> 01:14:56,239
be the inevitable

1993
01:15:00,870 --> 01:14:58,880
consequences of that

1994
01:15:02,310 --> 01:15:00,880
right exactly we talked a little bit

1995
01:15:04,470 --> 01:15:02,320
about jacques vallee before here's

1996
01:15:06,870 --> 01:15:04,480
another question was he someone that

1997
01:15:08,229 --> 01:15:06,880
your dad called to talk over cases is

1998
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:08,239
that

1999
01:15:15,830 --> 01:15:14,640
okay absolutely they co-authored a book

2000
01:15:21,110 --> 01:15:15,840
and

2001
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:21,120
there were few if any people

2002
01:15:25,510 --> 01:15:23,360
with whom my father would confide more

2003
01:15:28,149 --> 01:15:25,520
and jacques would go to project you know

2004
01:15:31,110 --> 01:15:28,159
blue book and dayton um

2005
01:15:32,709 --> 01:15:31,120
and pour over the cases and use his

2006
01:15:35,669 --> 01:15:32,719
artificial intelligence prowess because

2007
01:15:38,149 --> 01:15:35,679
he had a phd in ai from northwestern

2008
01:15:39,830 --> 01:15:38,159
uh to go over the cases to sort of tease

2009
01:15:42,149 --> 01:15:39,840
out patterns

2010
01:15:44,070 --> 01:15:42,159
from the cases so they they talked all

2011
01:15:45,910 --> 01:15:44,080
the time absolutely

2012
01:15:48,709 --> 01:15:45,920
well the follow-up question that you

2013
01:15:51,110 --> 01:15:48,719
sort of answered it um but i was going

2014
01:15:52,950 --> 01:15:51,120
to ask was there other people as well as

2015
01:15:55,110 --> 01:15:52,960
chocolate that your father you know

2016
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:55,120
leaned on for opinions

2017
01:15:59,750 --> 01:15:56,960
yeah i'm sure you're familiar with the

2018
01:16:01,830 --> 01:15:59,760
invisible college which is sort of

2019
01:16:04,950 --> 01:16:01,840
jacques and my father's resuscitation of

2020
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:04,960
a old sort of renaissance area concept

2021
01:16:07,830 --> 01:16:05,760
of

2022
01:16:10,149 --> 01:16:07,840
scientists

2023
01:16:13,270 --> 01:16:10,159
confiding in private

2024
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:13,280
in sort of a safe room environment

2025
01:16:17,750 --> 01:16:15,280
about a taboo topic

2026
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:17,760
so you know carl sagan and and others

2027
01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:18,719
and

2028
01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:20,480
arthur c clarke i have

2029
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:22,320
you know a letter

2030
01:16:27,669 --> 01:16:25,280
from arthur c clarke to my father

2031
01:16:31,110 --> 01:16:27,679
right about the time that he was the the

2032
01:16:33,669 --> 01:16:31,120
movie 2001 was going to be released

2033
01:16:36,310 --> 01:16:33,679
saying that professor heineck um

2034
01:16:38,709 --> 01:16:36,320
you know in public i i you know dismiss

2035
01:16:40,229 --> 01:16:38,719
ufos but in private i really respect

2036
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:40,239
your approach

2037
01:16:43,830 --> 01:16:41,840
and so they had a correspondence going

2038
01:16:45,270 --> 01:16:43,840
back and forth and there were a lot of

2039
01:16:48,149 --> 01:16:45,280
other people who would say that and

2040
01:16:50,870 --> 01:16:48,159
astronomers and others who would say i

2041
01:16:51,910 --> 01:16:50,880
can't say this publicly but hey you know

2042
01:16:53,669 --> 01:16:51,920
you go

2043
01:16:55,590 --> 01:16:53,679
in private

2044
01:16:57,590 --> 01:16:55,600
wow yeah i just put up this from arthur

2045
01:17:00,390 --> 01:16:57,600
c clarke i love this

2046
01:17:01,990 --> 01:17:00,400
for this uh quote two possibilities

2047
01:17:04,950 --> 01:17:02,000
exist either we are alone in the

2048
01:17:06,310 --> 01:17:04,960
universe or we are not both are equally

2049
01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:06,320
terrifying

2050
01:17:08,709 --> 01:17:07,600
i love that one

2051
01:17:11,270 --> 01:17:08,719
yeah i didn't see that before i like

2052
01:17:13,030 --> 01:17:11,280
that yeah yeah uh let's see we had a

2053
01:17:16,550 --> 01:17:13,040
comment up here i was going to

2054
01:17:19,350 --> 01:17:16,560
uh so this right here i i get uh this is

2055
01:17:21,830 --> 01:17:19,360
from over on facebook thank you jay um

2056
01:17:22,790 --> 01:17:21,840
did he ever have anything to do with hal

2057
01:17:25,590 --> 01:17:22,800
put off

2058
01:17:27,830 --> 01:17:25,600
uh targ and other the conscious

2059
01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:27,840
the conscious aspect of the phenomenon

2060
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:29,760
is it is this kind of new agey these

2061
01:17:32,709 --> 01:17:30,480
days

2062
01:17:34,870 --> 01:17:32,719
or was there ever anything talked about

2063
01:17:36,790 --> 01:17:34,880
when it comes to consciousness and

2064
01:17:39,910 --> 01:17:36,800
the phenomenon

2065
01:17:42,709 --> 01:17:39,920
yeah and you know that gets back to

2066
01:17:45,270 --> 01:17:42,719
that's a great question about

2067
01:17:47,110 --> 01:17:45,280
the extraterrestrial hypothesis

2068
01:17:50,709 --> 01:17:47,120
kind of lacking

2069
01:17:53,430 --> 01:17:50,719
this is the kind of meat on the bones

2070
01:17:55,669 --> 01:17:53,440
that the et hypothesis doesn't readily

2071
01:17:58,630 --> 01:17:55,679
address there

2072
01:18:02,630 --> 01:17:58,640
there seems to be a deeper call it

2073
01:18:04,790 --> 01:18:02,640
psychic or consciousness or other

2074
01:18:06,149 --> 01:18:04,800
layer to the phenomena

2075
01:18:08,470 --> 01:18:06,159
that is really the most fascinating i

2076
01:18:10,229 --> 01:18:08,480
mean if you study ufos as my father did

2077
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:10,239
you know going around the world and

2078
01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:11,760
looking at you know

2079
01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:14,080
trace elements in the earth and

2080
01:18:17,990 --> 01:18:16,080
you know examining radar reports and all

2081
01:18:19,990 --> 01:18:18,000
that okay that's great but after a while

2082
01:18:22,870 --> 01:18:20,000
you get convinced and it's just more the

2083
01:18:26,070 --> 01:18:22,880
same and what propelled him and jacques

2084
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:26,080
and you and others is this sort of extra

2085
01:18:30,149 --> 01:18:28,400
this sort of bonus round

2086
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:30,159
about the phenomena

2087
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:32,960
of consciousness and

2088
01:18:37,270 --> 01:18:35,040
you know are these you know i mentioned

2089
01:18:38,709 --> 01:18:37,280
interdimensional but i also mentioned in

2090
01:18:41,430 --> 01:18:38,719
passing the

2091
01:18:42,870 --> 01:18:41,440
potential manifestations of collective

2092
01:18:44,950 --> 01:18:42,880
unconscious

2093
01:18:46,790 --> 01:18:44,960
um and

2094
01:18:49,110 --> 01:18:46,800
you know one of the things that the

2095
01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:49,120
jacques has pointed out is that

2096
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:52,000
if you look at ufo reports

2097
01:18:56,790 --> 01:18:55,199
they tend to take on

2098
01:18:59,990 --> 01:18:56,800
the appearance

2099
01:19:02,310 --> 01:19:00,000
of the current scientific awareness

2100
01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:02,320
so in the 1890s you had these sort of

2101
01:19:07,590 --> 01:19:05,760
steampunk type airships floating around

2102
01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:07,600
with like flaps and things like that

2103
01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:09,520
right because that's what we understood

2104
01:19:12,229 --> 01:19:10,640
now

2105
01:19:15,350 --> 01:19:12,239
you can interpret that in different ways

2106
01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:15,360
but it is a part of the phenomena

2107
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:16,400
so

2108
01:19:21,270 --> 01:19:19,600
the notion of consciousness and and you

2109
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:21,280
mentioned you know

2110
01:19:25,350 --> 01:19:23,360
the guy i think in allagash right you

2111
01:19:26,790 --> 01:19:25,360
know the flashlight or this

2112
01:19:28,630 --> 01:19:26,800
communication or

2113
01:19:30,229 --> 01:19:28,640
close encounters of the fifth kind of

2114
01:19:32,390 --> 01:19:30,239
this ability to

2115
01:19:33,990 --> 01:19:32,400
apparently summon them

2116
01:19:36,950 --> 01:19:34,000
to come

2117
01:19:39,430 --> 01:19:36,960
is part of the most

2118
01:19:41,270 --> 01:19:39,440
i don't say elusive but most compelling

2119
01:19:42,870 --> 01:19:41,280
aspect of the phenomena that there is

2120
01:19:45,270 --> 01:19:42,880
this

2121
01:19:46,550 --> 01:19:45,280
communication which is part of

2122
01:19:48,070 --> 01:19:46,560
consciousness

2123
01:19:49,669 --> 01:19:48,080
between

2124
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:49,679
experiencers

2125
01:19:52,950 --> 01:19:50,560
and

2126
01:19:56,229 --> 01:19:52,960
say the aliens

2127
01:19:58,950 --> 01:19:56,239
on a sometimes a continual basis so that

2128
01:20:00,550 --> 01:19:58,960
that notion of consciousness

2129
01:20:02,709 --> 01:20:00,560
and communication

2130
01:20:05,030 --> 01:20:02,719
is about the most fascinating aspect of

2131
01:20:06,149 --> 01:20:05,040
all i think

2132
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:06,159
really fat

2133
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:08,880
uh yeah i mean this is again all all

2134
01:20:11,750 --> 01:20:10,800
part of it or it could be one of the

2135
01:20:15,189 --> 01:20:11,760
parts

2136
01:20:15,990 --> 01:20:15,199
um so this this email just came into me

2137
01:20:17,350 --> 01:20:16,000
and

2138
01:20:19,990 --> 01:20:17,360
i would like to

2139
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:20,000
read it to you it's from a leonard he

2140
01:20:23,430 --> 01:20:21,360
says thanks to both of you for the

2141
01:20:25,910 --> 01:20:23,440
interview i had the privilege of being

2142
01:20:28,470 --> 01:20:25,920
one of the handful of students taking an

2143
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:28,480
astronomy astronomy class at the

2144
01:20:34,390 --> 01:20:31,199
university of waterloo that attended a

2145
01:20:37,830 --> 01:20:34,400
presentation by dr heineck around 1969

2146
01:20:39,510 --> 01:20:37,840
1970. that ignited an interest in the

2147
01:20:41,910 --> 01:20:39,520
phenomenon

2148
01:20:44,629 --> 01:20:41,920
as well as just trust for the official

2149
01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:44,639
quote unquote drive both of which i have

2150
01:20:49,830 --> 01:20:47,520
increased over the years since

2151
01:20:51,510 --> 01:20:49,840
currently working on channel 5

2152
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:51,520
of his book

2153
01:20:55,189 --> 01:20:53,199
i would like to know the thoughts of

2154
01:20:57,110 --> 01:20:55,199
both you with respect to those

2155
01:20:59,910 --> 01:20:57,120
scientists that seem to completely

2156
01:21:02,709 --> 01:20:59,920
disregard if not discredit the

2157
01:21:05,030 --> 01:21:02,719
phenomenon in contrast to that these

2158
01:21:07,030 --> 01:21:05,040
have been those who are advocating that

2159
01:21:09,270 --> 01:21:07,040
serious science be applied

2160
01:21:11,430 --> 01:21:09,280
perhaps the other hominid species were

2161
01:21:13,510 --> 01:21:11,440
more advanced ethically and not

2162
01:21:15,990 --> 01:21:13,520
aggressive and warlike

2163
01:21:17,189 --> 01:21:16,000
um so i don't know what you have any

2164
01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:17,199
comments about

2165
01:21:19,910 --> 01:21:18,960
that comment

2166
01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:19,920
well

2167
01:21:24,149 --> 01:21:22,719
for some reason it wasn't a waterloo but

2168
01:21:26,830 --> 01:21:24,159
my father gave a

2169
01:21:31,030 --> 01:21:26,840
a presentation in canada

2170
01:21:33,590 --> 01:21:31,040
um and he had you know slides and you

2171
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:33,600
know his calling his stump speech at the

2172
01:21:38,470 --> 01:21:35,760
ready but apparently he forgot them in

2173
01:21:39,910 --> 01:21:38,480
the hotel so he had nothing to do

2174
01:21:41,430 --> 01:21:39,920
and so

2175
01:21:43,990 --> 01:21:41,440
you know being an accomplished professor

2176
01:21:46,229 --> 01:21:44,000
you know you have to go on in any case

2177
01:21:48,310 --> 01:21:46,239
and so what he did was he walked up on

2178
01:21:50,390 --> 01:21:48,320
the dais and to the lectern and said

2179
01:21:52,709 --> 01:21:50,400
hello my name is jay allen heineck and

2180
01:21:55,510 --> 01:21:52,719
i'm here to talk about ufos

2181
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:55,520
ufos are a fascinating subject

2182
01:21:58,870 --> 01:21:57,050
and now i'll take questions

2183
01:22:00,709 --> 01:21:58,880
[Laughter]

2184
01:22:02,390 --> 01:22:00,719
so i don't know that just popped in my

2185
01:22:04,709 --> 01:22:02,400
head but yeah

2186
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:04,719
and how's that did that work

2187
01:22:10,870 --> 01:22:07,440
yes it did it did um because he could

2188
01:22:12,550 --> 01:22:10,880
obviously expound for hours and and go

2189
01:22:14,629 --> 01:22:12,560
down very interesting paths based on

2190
01:22:16,550 --> 01:22:14,639
questions and he'd heard every question

2191
01:22:17,750 --> 01:22:16,560
probably in the world until that point

2192
01:22:19,350 --> 01:22:17,760
um

2193
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:19,360
in terms of

2194
01:22:23,270 --> 01:22:21,840
mainstream science and

2195
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:23,280
you know perception like sort of

2196
01:22:29,990 --> 01:22:27,120
dogmatic refusal of the heresy

2197
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:30,000
of things outside that flashlight that

2198
01:22:34,470 --> 01:22:31,760
my father took to the

2199
01:22:35,590 --> 01:22:34,480
fringier areas of science

2200
01:22:37,350 --> 01:22:35,600
you know

2201
01:22:40,070 --> 01:22:37,360
to me again

2202
01:22:42,229 --> 01:22:40,080
i'll draw the parallel to the

2203
01:22:44,830 --> 01:22:42,239
incident we were talking about at norad

2204
01:22:47,590 --> 01:22:44,840
where it may not be

2205
01:22:50,070 --> 01:22:47,600
conspiratorial orders from your superior

2206
01:22:51,590 --> 01:22:50,080
to dismiss this but just it's not part

2207
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:51,600
of what you're doing

2208
01:22:57,830 --> 01:22:55,440
i i think for a lot of scientists

2209
01:22:59,350 --> 01:22:57,840
ufos are intriguing

2210
01:23:00,870 --> 01:22:59,360
let's say astronomers right where

2211
01:23:03,270 --> 01:23:00,880
there's roughly

2212
01:23:05,350 --> 01:23:03,280
you know a relation to a ufo

2213
01:23:06,790 --> 01:23:05,360
a phenomenon but

2214
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:06,800
they're very busy

2215
01:23:11,510 --> 01:23:09,440
they're maybe looking for tenure as well

2216
01:23:13,110 --> 01:23:11,520
they have to publish a new paper they

2217
01:23:14,149 --> 01:23:13,120
have to grade the papers of their

2218
01:23:16,470 --> 01:23:14,159
students

2219
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:16,480
they may be a department chair they're

2220
01:23:23,189 --> 01:23:18,880
very busy and they're going for a grant

2221
01:23:25,350 --> 01:23:23,199
and they hear about ufos but

2222
01:23:27,189 --> 01:23:25,360
okay that doesn't help them in their

2223
01:23:28,390 --> 01:23:27,199
career they're very career focused and

2224
01:23:30,870 --> 01:23:28,400
they have to write a book and they've

2225
01:23:34,070 --> 01:23:30,880
got family or whatever else going on

2226
01:23:37,030 --> 01:23:34,080
so to me it's almost just

2227
01:23:39,510 --> 01:23:37,040
there's no perhaps connective tissue of

2228
01:23:41,830 --> 01:23:39,520
conspiracy driving them all to

2229
01:23:44,709 --> 01:23:41,840
you know have like that roman shield

2230
01:23:47,430 --> 01:23:44,719
wall against this newcomer

2231
01:23:49,189 --> 01:23:47,440
it's just a very prozac situation of a

2232
01:23:50,950 --> 01:23:49,199
lot of them being busy

2233
01:23:53,990 --> 01:23:50,960
and not seeing

2234
01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:54,000
enough to really intrigue them

2235
01:23:57,510 --> 01:23:55,679
on a personal level

2236
01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:57,520
and they just have other stuff to do i

2237
01:24:02,629 --> 01:23:59,840
think that's a lot of what it is

2238
01:24:04,629 --> 01:24:02,639
in science that keeps

2239
01:24:06,310 --> 01:24:04,639
new phenomena

2240
01:24:08,070 --> 01:24:06,320
at bay for some time just because

2241
01:24:09,910 --> 01:24:08,080
they're all busy doing what they're

2242
01:24:12,149 --> 01:24:09,920
already thinking about

2243
01:24:14,470 --> 01:24:12,159
that's a that is a really really good

2244
01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:14,480
point by the way did your

2245
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:16,480
father get tenure

2246
01:24:20,709 --> 01:24:18,400
oh yes he um

2247
01:24:22,950 --> 01:24:20,719
he was the chairman of department of

2248
01:24:24,229 --> 01:24:22,960
astronomy at northwestern for 20 years

2249
01:24:25,590 --> 01:24:24,239
or so

2250
01:24:28,149 --> 01:24:25,600
it's funny

2251
01:24:30,709 --> 01:24:28,159
at the same time northwestern hated they

2252
01:24:31,669 --> 01:24:30,719
absolutely hated my father's ufo work

2253
01:24:34,070 --> 01:24:31,679
but

2254
01:24:34,910 --> 01:24:34,080
fortunately he had enough standing in

2255
01:24:37,030 --> 01:24:34,920
the

2256
01:24:38,790 --> 01:24:37,040
astronomical community

2257
01:24:40,470 --> 01:24:38,800
by having worked on the proximity fuse

2258
01:24:43,030 --> 01:24:40,480
in world war ii

2259
01:24:46,070 --> 01:24:43,040
by leading operation moonwatch you know

2260
01:24:48,310 --> 01:24:46,080
placing observatories around the world

2261
01:24:50,550 --> 01:24:48,320
in the late 50s to track what were then

2262
01:24:52,709 --> 01:24:50,560
known as artificial satellites

2263
01:24:54,950 --> 01:24:52,719
and you know his other astronomical work

2264
01:24:57,350 --> 01:24:54,960
to be a bona fide astronomer

2265
01:24:58,950 --> 01:24:57,360
so northwestern you know kind of just

2266
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:58,960
put up with his

2267
01:25:01,910 --> 01:25:00,719
ufo antics

2268
01:25:04,470 --> 01:25:01,920
how about that

2269
01:25:06,390 --> 01:25:04,480
um i had the pleasure of oh we have a

2270
01:25:08,550 --> 01:25:06,400
couple of questions in chat i'll put up

2271
01:25:11,590 --> 01:25:08,560
there i had the pleasure of hanging out

2272
01:25:14,629 --> 01:25:11,600
with bryce sable and dave o'leary out in

2273
01:25:16,709 --> 01:25:14,639
california um a few weeks ago maybe a

2274
01:25:18,070 --> 01:25:16,719
month ago or something i was out there

2275
01:25:20,070 --> 01:25:18,080
where you were and you were out here

2276
01:25:22,310 --> 01:25:20,080
where i am and uh too bad we didn't meet

2277
01:25:24,629 --> 01:25:22,320
up but anyway uh

2278
01:25:26,950 --> 01:25:24,639
what did you and i think dave o'leary is

2279
01:25:30,149 --> 01:25:26,960
a great guy i really think he's a real

2280
01:25:32,709 --> 01:25:30,159
real fine guy but um

2281
01:25:35,750 --> 01:25:32,719
overall were you okay with

2282
01:25:38,229 --> 01:25:35,760
how project blue book history channels

2283
01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:38,239
project blue book series went or do you

2284
01:25:42,390 --> 01:25:41,280
think it was uh do you think it kind of

2285
01:25:46,390 --> 01:25:42,400
hurt

2286
01:25:48,870 --> 01:25:46,400
anything or do you think it was okay

2287
01:25:50,870 --> 01:25:48,880
well and and first let me say for the

2288
01:25:52,149 --> 01:25:50,880
record that

2289
01:25:55,830 --> 01:25:52,159
having the

2290
01:25:59,110 --> 01:25:55,840
super villain from game of thrones

2291
01:26:01,830 --> 01:25:59,120
play your tv father little finger

2292
01:26:04,629 --> 01:26:01,840
super freaky at all

2293
01:26:07,189 --> 01:26:04,639
um actually he's a fine guy and i count

2294
01:26:08,790 --> 01:26:07,199
as a friend now um

2295
01:26:10,629 --> 01:26:08,800
you know i

2296
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:10,639
my brother joel and i were consultants

2297
01:26:17,350 --> 01:26:13,920
on the show project blue book and

2298
01:26:19,669 --> 01:26:17,360
uh i i think the show was great um you

2299
01:26:22,950 --> 01:26:19,679
know dave o'leary the creator and sean

2300
01:26:25,110 --> 01:26:22,960
jablonski the show runner um arturo

2301
01:26:27,430 --> 01:26:25,120
antarian the initial

2302
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:27,440
you know exec studio executive and the

2303
01:26:34,229 --> 01:26:29,040
cast and the crew

2304
01:26:41,830 --> 01:26:35,030
they

2305
01:26:43,350 --> 01:26:41,840
wanted to get stories across

2306
01:26:46,310 --> 01:26:43,360
the the

2307
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:46,320
the gist of the show you know portrays

2308
01:26:52,950 --> 01:26:49,440
my my father and my mother

2309
01:26:54,950 --> 01:26:52,960
and has lens sort of bases

2310
01:26:56,550 --> 01:26:54,960
especially in season one

2311
01:26:58,870 --> 01:26:56,560
upon

2312
01:27:01,590 --> 01:26:58,880
actual reports doesn't actually mean

2313
01:27:02,870 --> 01:27:01,600
that there are actual events

2314
01:27:04,790 --> 01:27:02,880
but

2315
01:27:06,470 --> 01:27:04,800
the show is about

2316
01:27:09,510 --> 01:27:06,480
authenticity

2317
01:27:11,350 --> 01:27:09,520
you take two characters you understand

2318
01:27:13,510 --> 01:27:11,360
what makes them tick and we talked with

2319
01:27:15,990 --> 01:27:13,520
aiden and laura who played my dad and

2320
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:16,000
mom respectively quite a lot

2321
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:18,719
and you place him in stretched

2322
01:27:22,390 --> 01:27:20,880
circumstances

2323
01:27:24,790 --> 01:27:22,400
and

2324
01:27:27,350 --> 01:27:24,800
the the

2325
01:27:29,030 --> 01:27:27,360
the importance for joel and i and we

2326
01:27:30,790 --> 01:27:29,040
would read pre-production scripts

2327
01:27:32,470 --> 01:27:30,800
because as a consultant on a show you

2328
01:27:35,590 --> 01:27:32,480
don't control it you don't

2329
01:27:37,189 --> 01:27:35,600
dictate what happens you can influence

2330
01:27:38,709 --> 01:27:37,199
and since both joel and i worked in

2331
01:27:39,910 --> 01:27:38,719
hollywood a lot

2332
01:27:41,910 --> 01:27:39,920
i asked if we could read the

2333
01:27:43,990 --> 01:27:41,920
pre-production scripts and go to the set

2334
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:44,000
and they said sure so we were able to

2335
01:27:47,910 --> 01:27:46,400
review each script beforehand and give

2336
01:27:49,030 --> 01:27:47,920
input and they did accept a lot of it

2337
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:49,040
and you know you got to pick your

2338
01:27:53,350 --> 01:27:50,960
battles and it's a function of the

2339
01:27:54,390 --> 01:27:53,360
relationship that you establish the

2340
01:27:56,390 --> 01:27:54,400
trust

2341
01:27:57,590 --> 01:27:56,400
and you know the quality of the comments

2342
01:27:58,470 --> 01:27:57,600
that you give

2343
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:58,480
um

2344
01:28:03,830 --> 01:28:00,960
and so our family

2345
01:28:06,550 --> 01:28:03,840
was was very happy that they portrayed

2346
01:28:08,790 --> 01:28:06,560
our parents in a respectful way

2347
01:28:11,270 --> 01:28:08,800
and it's understood and they even

2348
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:11,280
mentioned the beginning of the show look

2349
01:28:15,430 --> 01:28:13,120
click you know click on the website

2350
01:28:17,590 --> 01:28:15,440
afterwards to learn more about the real

2351
01:28:20,149 --> 01:28:17,600
report of this case that's right i think

2352
01:28:22,229 --> 01:28:20,159
the show had an interesting premise of

2353
01:28:25,590 --> 01:28:22,239
starting with

2354
01:28:27,669 --> 01:28:25,600
actual reports and real people

2355
01:28:29,830 --> 01:28:27,679
and then taking it a little bit farther

2356
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:29,840
so yeah very comfortable with the show

2357
01:28:35,430 --> 01:28:32,239
and i think like close encounters

2358
01:28:37,830 --> 01:28:35,440
it had enough fictional elements to draw

2359
01:28:40,390 --> 01:28:37,840
more people into the tent as opposed to

2360
01:28:42,629 --> 01:28:40,400
just an echo chamber of already

2361
01:28:44,550 --> 01:28:42,639
converted ufo diehards

2362
01:28:46,310 --> 01:28:44,560
right i just want to know did you grow

2363
01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:46,320
up with all that great mid-century

2364
01:28:49,189 --> 01:28:48,080
modern decor

2365
01:28:51,510 --> 01:28:49,199
furniture

2366
01:28:53,669 --> 01:28:51,520
oh the production value was fantastic

2367
01:28:55,510 --> 01:28:53,679
you know i love some of these pieces

2368
01:28:57,350 --> 01:28:55,520
robert is a cinematographer so i had a

2369
01:28:59,189 --> 01:28:57,360
very filmic feel

2370
01:29:01,030 --> 01:28:59,199
and the sets and the wardrobe were

2371
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:01,040
fantastic

2372
01:29:07,110 --> 01:29:03,280
you know the

2373
01:29:09,669 --> 01:29:07,120
last episode of season one

2374
01:29:11,990 --> 01:29:09,679
uh laura my tv mom

2375
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:12,000
is wearing a coat and this turquoise

2376
01:29:14,790 --> 01:29:13,199
brooch

2377
01:29:17,990 --> 01:29:14,800
and i remember looking at that saying

2378
01:29:20,950 --> 01:29:18,000
wow that looks familiar

2379
01:29:23,189 --> 01:29:20,960
i forgot that i had given that to laura

2380
01:29:25,030 --> 01:29:23,199
before the show started and that was

2381
01:29:27,510 --> 01:29:25,040
actually from my mom

2382
01:29:29,510 --> 01:29:27,520
isn't that amazing that's awesome we

2383
01:29:31,830 --> 01:29:29,520
have someone that uh actually called in

2384
01:29:33,669 --> 01:29:31,840
i guess he remembered that the uh the

2385
01:29:36,629 --> 01:29:33,679
phone number here we haven't even posted

2386
01:29:39,350 --> 01:29:36,639
the number yet we have uh let me pull in

2387
01:29:40,950 --> 01:29:39,360
kgra radio on the phone line so we have

2388
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:40,960
ronald from

2389
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:44,639
uh minnesota is it minnesota hey martin

2390
01:29:48,950 --> 01:29:47,280
happy new year hello to paul

2391
01:29:50,950 --> 01:29:48,960
happy new year

2392
01:29:53,189 --> 01:29:50,960
very interesting guest and very

2393
01:29:55,830 --> 01:29:53,199
interesting show thank you for your uh

2394
01:29:58,470 --> 01:29:55,840
doing so so early to the holiday and and

2395
01:29:59,910 --> 01:29:58,480
uh getting right back to work

2396
01:30:01,430 --> 01:29:59,920
yeah

2397
01:30:03,189 --> 01:30:01,440
hopefully things will open up and we'll

2398
01:30:04,149 --> 01:30:03,199
get back to some more conferences this

2399
01:30:05,189 --> 01:30:04,159
year

2400
01:30:07,189 --> 01:30:05,199
um

2401
01:30:09,110 --> 01:30:07,199
but i have a question for both of you

2402
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:09,120
about concerning

2403
01:30:13,590 --> 01:30:11,760
not not the craft necessarily

2404
01:30:16,149 --> 01:30:13,600
but the

2405
01:30:20,149 --> 01:30:16,159
aliens that are in the craft

2406
01:30:22,310 --> 01:30:20,159
i've talked to religious people you know

2407
01:30:24,870 --> 01:30:22,320
and they all say oh they're fallen

2408
01:30:27,189 --> 01:30:24,880
angels or the demons and god couldn't

2409
01:30:29,350 --> 01:30:27,199
create anything else out there

2410
01:30:32,229 --> 01:30:29,360
he only created human beings and it's

2411
01:30:34,149 --> 01:30:32,239
like well that's kind of you know

2412
01:30:35,669 --> 01:30:34,159
kind of selfish in my opinion for

2413
01:30:37,750 --> 01:30:35,679
somebody to think that way

2414
01:30:40,149 --> 01:30:37,760
and uh in in my opinion i think god can

2415
01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:40,159
create anything anywhere i'm saying god

2416
01:30:44,870 --> 01:30:42,159
in general you know for anybody you know

2417
01:30:45,590 --> 01:30:44,880
source or what are going on anyway the

2418
01:30:47,430 --> 01:30:45,600
the

2419
01:30:50,470 --> 01:30:47,440
grand creator of everything i think he

2420
01:30:51,590 --> 01:30:50,480
could create life of any kind anywhere

2421
01:30:52,709 --> 01:30:51,600
okay

2422
01:30:54,790 --> 01:30:52,719
um

2423
01:30:56,870 --> 01:30:54,800
i i do believe that there is aliens i

2424
01:30:59,590 --> 01:30:56,880
don't think they're demons or fallen

2425
01:31:00,830 --> 01:30:59,600
angels i think some of them could be

2426
01:31:03,430 --> 01:31:00,840
but at the same

2427
01:31:05,990 --> 01:31:03,440
time what do you think and then also

2428
01:31:09,350 --> 01:31:06,000
what is their message to us why are they

2429
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:12,550
you can take that martin

2430
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:13,510
well

2431
01:31:18,470 --> 01:31:16,560
thank you thank you paul yeah um

2432
01:31:20,229 --> 01:31:18,480
i think you know i mean

2433
01:31:23,350 --> 01:31:20,239
i think uh

2434
01:31:26,470 --> 01:31:23,360
i like the the observation

2435
01:31:28,390 --> 01:31:26,480
part you know theory or whatever um you

2436
01:31:31,270 --> 01:31:28,400
know one of the the people that i

2437
01:31:33,750 --> 01:31:31,280
interviewed for his ufo sighting he sort

2438
01:31:34,790 --> 01:31:33,760
of got a message and and he he was

2439
01:31:36,470 --> 01:31:34,800
saying i

2440
01:31:38,229 --> 01:31:36,480
he it gives him

2441
01:31:40,709 --> 01:31:38,239
chills when people say you know that

2442
01:31:43,350 --> 01:31:40,719
they had to uh telepathy but he said

2443
01:31:45,189 --> 01:31:43,360
that this thought came into his mind

2444
01:31:47,910 --> 01:31:45,199
when he looked up and saw these hominid

2445
01:31:49,910 --> 01:31:47,920
type things in the window that uh don't

2446
01:31:51,590 --> 01:31:49,920
worry we're just you know we're just

2447
01:31:54,870 --> 01:31:51,600
observing you

2448
01:31:57,110 --> 01:31:54,880
and you know i i would think you know

2449
01:31:59,430 --> 01:31:57,120
we are we must be interesting to

2450
01:32:01,910 --> 01:31:59,440
something out there um you know perhaps

2451
01:32:05,910 --> 01:32:01,920
that that is part of it you know uh

2452
01:32:09,270 --> 01:32:07,430
i don't presume to know much more than

2453
01:32:11,669 --> 01:32:09,280
anybody else i i like what you said

2454
01:32:14,550 --> 01:32:11,679
ronald about how

2455
01:32:16,310 --> 01:32:14,560
not demons and how it seems pretty

2456
01:32:18,149 --> 01:32:16,320
limiting to think that

2457
01:32:20,229 --> 01:32:18,159
we're the only

2458
01:32:22,229 --> 01:32:20,239
to go back to your work martin bipedal

2459
01:32:23,030 --> 01:32:22,239
creatures around

2460
01:32:25,030 --> 01:32:23,040
um

2461
01:32:27,270 --> 01:32:25,040
it's an awful lot to overkill you know

2462
01:32:30,149 --> 01:32:27,280
nature is very efficient right and it

2463
01:32:32,070 --> 01:32:30,159
seems like a lot of sloppy overkill

2464
01:32:35,350 --> 01:32:32,080
that we're the only life force that we

2465
01:32:37,830 --> 01:32:35,360
know of or that god however you worship

2466
01:32:38,870 --> 01:32:37,840
a god would have created universe so

2467
01:32:40,629 --> 01:32:38,880
vast

2468
01:32:42,390 --> 01:32:40,639
and we're the only

2469
01:32:44,950 --> 01:32:42,400
amount of life on this tiny

2470
01:32:46,310 --> 01:32:44,960
insignificant orb so that just seems

2471
01:32:47,350 --> 01:32:46,320
really

2472
01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:47,360
un

2473
01:32:50,229 --> 01:32:48,719
um

2474
01:32:52,830 --> 01:32:50,239
unlikely to me

2475
01:32:54,310 --> 01:32:52,840
a waste of space as they say

2476
01:32:55,750 --> 01:32:54,320
yeah i think i mean if you're gonna just

2477
01:32:57,590 --> 01:32:55,760
make life here

2478
01:32:59,110 --> 01:32:57,600
you know make this planet make about 20

2479
01:33:02,149 --> 01:32:59,120
000 others so we could see in the sky

2480
01:33:04,310 --> 01:33:02,159
and call it a day there you go

2481
01:33:06,709 --> 01:33:04,320
good plan good plan well thank you again

2482
01:33:09,030 --> 01:33:06,719
for a great show and we'll see you later

2483
01:33:10,950 --> 01:33:09,040
on in a year and i'll be watching for

2484
01:33:12,390 --> 01:33:10,960
all of your work that you put out there

2485
01:33:17,590 --> 01:33:12,400
thank you

2486
01:33:19,830 --> 01:33:17,600
uh yeah i met i met ron ronald he came

2487
01:33:23,030 --> 01:33:19,840
to pine bush drove all the way out from

2488
01:33:25,270 --> 01:33:23,040
minnesota um at pine bush i'm sure

2489
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:25,280
you've heard of pine bush the ufo in new

2490
01:33:30,870 --> 01:33:26,320
york

2491
01:33:32,629 --> 01:33:30,880
so the line is open

2492
01:33:33,669 --> 01:33:32,639
that number is eight five five four

2493
01:33:36,390 --> 01:33:33,679
seven two

2494
01:33:37,830 --> 01:33:36,400
five four eight three another question

2495
01:33:40,390 --> 01:33:37,840
came in email i don't really like to

2496
01:33:41,430 --> 01:33:40,400
have questions um on email while i'm

2497
01:33:44,149 --> 01:33:41,440
doing a show

2498
01:33:46,709 --> 01:33:44,159
because i'm going to miss them but why

2499
01:33:47,830 --> 01:33:46,719
are experiencers so compelled to pursue

2500
01:33:49,270 --> 01:33:47,840
the issue

2501
01:33:51,590 --> 01:33:49,280
through life

2502
01:33:53,830 --> 01:33:51,600
and uh i guess you could

2503
01:33:57,189 --> 01:33:53,840
take that in a few different ways

2504
01:34:00,390 --> 01:33:59,110
i don't know

2505
01:34:03,270 --> 01:34:00,400
you know i mean

2506
01:34:06,709 --> 01:34:03,280
let me just put it this way if if i was

2507
01:34:08,310 --> 01:34:06,719
being abducted like people talk about

2508
01:34:10,790 --> 01:34:08,320
that happened to them

2509
01:34:12,870 --> 01:34:10,800
i don't know how it even functioned

2510
01:34:14,629 --> 01:34:12,880
you know it'd be such a part of my life

2511
01:34:18,229 --> 01:34:14,639
i don't know how i could go through

2512
01:34:19,430 --> 01:34:18,239
day-to-day life and and be semi-normal

2513
01:34:21,990 --> 01:34:19,440
you know

2514
01:34:25,189 --> 01:34:22,000
it's it's uh

2515
01:34:26,629 --> 01:34:25,199
any thoughts on that

2516
01:34:29,030 --> 01:34:26,639
yeah you know it goes back to this

2517
01:34:30,310 --> 01:34:29,040
notion that

2518
01:34:33,510 --> 01:34:30,320
let's let's

2519
01:34:34,390 --> 01:34:33,520
step back from ufos in particular and

2520
01:34:35,750 --> 01:34:34,400
just

2521
01:34:38,310 --> 01:34:35,760
sketch out

2522
01:34:39,189 --> 01:34:38,320
an experience that you have

2523
01:34:40,470 --> 01:34:39,199
where

2524
01:34:42,709 --> 01:34:40,480
you see

2525
01:34:45,830 --> 01:34:42,719
an entity and it can be it could be a

2526
01:34:47,669 --> 01:34:45,840
ufo experience or a dmt or a dream or

2527
01:34:49,990 --> 01:34:47,679
you're walking down the street

2528
01:34:52,550 --> 01:34:50,000
and you see an entity

2529
01:34:54,070 --> 01:34:52,560
and that entity appears hyper real to

2530
01:34:56,310 --> 01:34:54,080
you

2531
01:34:58,550 --> 01:34:56,320
super intelligent

2532
01:35:00,709 --> 01:34:58,560
may possess some kind of communication

2533
01:35:03,189 --> 01:35:00,719
that they give to you a warning or a

2534
01:35:05,590 --> 01:35:03,199
hello or anything

2535
01:35:07,430 --> 01:35:05,600
how do you not

2536
01:35:08,790 --> 01:35:07,440
when they they say obsess or feel

2537
01:35:10,149 --> 01:35:08,800
compelled

2538
01:35:11,669 --> 01:35:10,159
about that

2539
01:35:12,790 --> 01:35:11,679
it'd be such a

2540
01:35:14,550 --> 01:35:12,800
signal

2541
01:35:16,709 --> 01:35:14,560
event in your life

2542
01:35:17,910 --> 01:35:16,719
so atypical

2543
01:35:19,910 --> 01:35:17,920
and

2544
01:35:22,550 --> 01:35:19,920
how how do you

2545
01:35:24,149 --> 01:35:22,560
stop sort of attempting to process

2546
01:35:26,830 --> 01:35:24,159
something

2547
01:35:29,590 --> 01:35:26,840
that is so

2548
01:35:32,550 --> 01:35:29,600
overwhelming in terms of its uniqueness

2549
01:35:35,189 --> 01:35:32,560
and perceived significance

2550
01:35:36,870 --> 01:35:35,199
um and i think you know we are pattern

2551
01:35:40,070 --> 01:35:36,880
seeking mammals

2552
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:40,080
so it's natural it's evolved in us to

2553
01:35:45,990 --> 01:35:43,440
try to find meaning in that and perhaps

2554
01:35:47,990 --> 01:35:46,000
you sense meaning because you feel that

2555
01:35:50,310 --> 01:35:48,000
you've had a communication

2556
01:35:53,350 --> 01:35:50,320
and that communication would be perhaps

2557
01:35:55,030 --> 01:35:53,360
life changing or on the other hand

2558
01:35:57,109 --> 01:35:55,040
you don't feel

2559
01:35:59,109 --> 01:35:57,119
a clear communication or you feel it was

2560
01:36:01,990 --> 01:35:59,119
dark and hostile

2561
01:36:04,550 --> 01:36:02,000
and now you're seeking for meaning

2562
01:36:06,629 --> 01:36:04,560
in this event that's unlike anything

2563
01:36:09,350 --> 01:36:06,639
else that's ever happened at night like

2564
01:36:11,350 --> 01:36:09,360
you said martin i think either way

2565
01:36:13,030 --> 01:36:11,360
it's just not something that you say

2566
01:36:15,510 --> 01:36:13,040
yeah that was super cool i met the alien

2567
01:36:18,550 --> 01:36:15,520
that day um hey what's for dinner

2568
01:36:21,350 --> 01:36:18,560
yeah yeah and and also i think it's

2569
01:36:22,790 --> 01:36:21,360
really bizarre that

2570
01:36:25,590 --> 01:36:22,800
these things happen

2571
01:36:27,910 --> 01:36:25,600
supposedly happen repeatedly

2572
01:36:29,590 --> 01:36:27,920
and to family members and you know

2573
01:36:30,950 --> 01:36:29,600
there's there's thoughts on that

2574
01:36:32,790 --> 01:36:30,960
different thoughts of that you know the

2575
01:36:34,870 --> 01:36:32,800
bloodlines or whatever and

2576
01:36:36,310 --> 01:36:34,880
progress but i mean for these things for

2577
01:36:38,629 --> 01:36:36,320
these people

2578
01:36:40,709 --> 01:36:38,639
to claim this is happening over and over

2579
01:36:43,270 --> 01:36:40,719
and over and over again and then to

2580
01:36:45,669 --> 01:36:43,280
their daughter and to their i mean it's

2581
01:36:47,750 --> 01:36:45,679
it's all really something else another

2582
01:36:49,590 --> 01:36:47,760
big huge question mark

2583
01:36:51,510 --> 01:36:49,600
yeah there's a sort of hoarding all the

2584
01:36:54,070 --> 01:36:51,520
great ufo encounters for themselves and

2585
01:36:56,790 --> 01:36:54,080
their bloodline not fair that's not

2586
01:36:59,590 --> 01:36:56,800
right cut me in on some of that

2587
01:37:02,310 --> 01:36:59,600
yo better watch what you wish for

2588
01:37:05,270 --> 01:37:02,320
all right so we have francisco uh from

2589
01:37:08,310 --> 01:37:05,280
new mexico on the line francisco you are

2590
01:37:10,149 --> 01:37:08,320
live on the air welcome to the show

2591
01:37:11,750 --> 01:37:10,159
hello hello welcome uh happy new year

2592
01:37:13,910 --> 01:37:11,760
palmetto martin thank you for the time

2593
01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:13,920
uh quick question i guess um

2594
01:37:18,070 --> 01:37:15,840
if you were flying the wall in the

2595
01:37:20,709 --> 01:37:18,080
heineken you know growing up what would

2596
01:37:22,870 --> 01:37:20,719
you say is like the more common

2597
01:37:25,030 --> 01:37:22,880
type of encounters or experiences like

2598
01:37:26,550 --> 01:37:25,040
you would hear like you know someone all

2599
01:37:28,070 --> 01:37:26,560
alone in the desert you know in the

2600
01:37:29,830 --> 01:37:28,080
desert by themselves or someone around

2601
01:37:31,910 --> 01:37:29,840
the water that type of thing like

2602
01:37:34,390 --> 01:37:31,920
something we don't all hear

2603
01:37:41,270 --> 01:37:34,400
uh you know in the mainstream

2604
01:37:45,189 --> 01:37:43,109
i i think the question is i couldn't

2605
01:37:47,109 --> 01:37:45,199
hear that well but the question is what

2606
01:37:51,910 --> 01:37:47,119
kind of

2607
01:37:55,590 --> 01:37:53,350
so like

2608
01:37:57,750 --> 01:37:55,600
hearing people like like being there and

2609
01:37:59,430 --> 01:37:57,760
and just kind of growing up in the home

2610
01:38:00,470 --> 01:37:59,440
what comes to mind like what comes to

2611
01:38:02,950 --> 01:38:00,480
your mind

2612
01:38:04,390 --> 01:38:02,960
that like seem to happen more often

2613
01:38:06,149 --> 01:38:04,400
i guess like if we were in your shoes

2614
01:38:09,990 --> 01:38:06,159
what would we have heard uh you know

2615
01:38:13,910 --> 01:38:11,590
yeah so

2616
01:38:18,070 --> 01:38:13,920
you know for me uh my younger brother

2617
01:38:19,910 --> 01:38:18,080
being on sort of the tail end um

2618
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:19,920
it was already just accepted that these

2619
01:38:25,590 --> 01:38:23,360
things happened and so for me

2620
01:38:28,550 --> 01:38:25,600
it would you know

2621
01:38:30,950 --> 01:38:28,560
it might seem to be a very unique event

2622
01:38:32,790 --> 01:38:30,960
to have like a travis walton for dinner

2623
01:38:34,149 --> 01:38:32,800
but that was just kind of like tuesday

2624
01:38:37,510 --> 01:38:34,159
night it was just

2625
01:38:39,270 --> 01:38:37,520
it was we're so used to it so

2626
01:38:42,830 --> 01:38:39,280
i grew up

2627
01:38:45,669 --> 01:38:42,840
completely accepting the ufo phenomena

2628
01:38:48,070 --> 01:38:45,679
and so many aspects of it that none of

2629
01:38:50,229 --> 01:38:48,080
it seems strange it was just

2630
01:38:52,070 --> 01:38:50,239
how life was um

2631
01:38:54,390 --> 01:38:52,080
so there was very little

2632
01:38:58,470 --> 01:38:54,400
to your point francisco

2633
01:39:00,550 --> 01:38:58,480
that jumps out to me as being unusual or

2634
01:39:01,830 --> 01:39:00,560
that memorable because it was like that

2635
01:39:04,229 --> 01:39:01,840
all the time was all sort of

2636
01:39:07,510 --> 01:39:04,239
science-based we we weren't religious so

2637
01:39:10,070 --> 01:39:07,520
it was all science-based with a healthy

2638
01:39:13,109 --> 01:39:10,080
heaping of ufos on top

2639
01:39:15,430 --> 01:39:13,119
so it all just sort of fit together into

2640
01:39:17,430 --> 01:39:15,440
an accepted world view and it was

2641
01:39:19,590 --> 01:39:17,440
really came down to

2642
01:39:21,669 --> 01:39:19,600
um

2643
01:39:24,229 --> 01:39:21,679
sort of the strength oh and the

2644
01:39:26,310 --> 01:39:24,239
credibility of the witness because

2645
01:39:28,310 --> 01:39:26,320
after a while you hear so many reports

2646
01:39:29,750 --> 01:39:28,320
of a craft doing this or that you just

2647
01:39:32,149 --> 01:39:29,760
sort of accept

2648
01:39:33,030 --> 01:39:32,159
that crafts can likely do things that we

2649
01:39:34,870 --> 01:39:33,040
can't

2650
01:39:38,070 --> 01:39:34,880
and you're not really that

2651
01:39:40,390 --> 01:39:38,080
amazed anymore by yet another case of a

2652
01:39:42,550 --> 01:39:40,400
craft disappearing or going underwater

2653
01:39:43,830 --> 01:39:42,560
like you said martin but it really comes

2654
01:39:46,950 --> 01:39:43,840
down to

2655
01:39:49,830 --> 01:39:46,960
the fulcrum of examining the witness so

2656
01:39:51,109 --> 01:39:49,840
i think i became more interested

2657
01:39:59,109 --> 01:39:51,119
in

2658
01:40:00,550 --> 01:39:59,119
you could really look at

2659
01:40:03,750 --> 01:40:00,560
and that kind of

2660
01:40:05,270 --> 01:40:03,760
human psychology was i think even more

2661
01:40:09,830 --> 01:40:05,280
fascinating than

2662
01:40:11,590 --> 01:40:09,840
reports of saucers and what they did

2663
01:40:13,990 --> 01:40:11,600
right well

2664
01:40:16,070 --> 01:40:14,000
that's awesome i appreciate the time

2665
01:40:18,310 --> 01:40:16,080
again happy new year happy new year

2666
01:40:21,030 --> 01:40:18,320
francisco talk to you soon

2667
01:40:25,750 --> 01:40:23,590
all right so we have sarah on the line

2668
01:40:27,270 --> 01:40:25,760
from san rafael california where i used

2669
01:40:29,430 --> 01:40:27,280
to live uh

2670
01:40:30,790 --> 01:40:29,440
sarah my friend sarah how are you

2671
01:40:32,470 --> 01:40:30,800
welcome to the show you're live on the

2672
01:40:34,310 --> 01:40:32,480
air

2673
01:40:36,950 --> 01:40:34,320
thanks martin happy new year paul and

2674
01:40:38,709 --> 01:40:36,960
happy new year martin um i always have a

2675
01:40:40,550 --> 01:40:38,719
question thank you

2676
01:40:43,750 --> 01:40:40,560
i have a question i've been watching ben

2677
01:40:46,070 --> 01:40:43,760
hansen's ufo witness on travel channel

2678
01:40:48,550 --> 01:40:46,080
and he's always referring to this trove

2679
01:40:50,709 --> 01:40:48,560
of these project blue book is this

2680
01:40:52,629 --> 01:40:50,719
hidden filed or something like that

2681
01:40:55,030 --> 01:40:52,639
there's a trove and there was this old

2682
01:40:56,310 --> 01:40:55,040
woman there who used to take care of it

2683
01:40:58,149 --> 01:40:56,320
is there such a thing do you know

2684
01:40:59,910 --> 01:40:58,159
anything about that and she also

2685
01:41:01,510 --> 01:40:59,920
mentioned that supposedly i

2686
01:41:04,470 --> 01:41:01,520
get the impression that she

2687
01:41:05,910 --> 01:41:04,480
worked in project blue look and that she

2688
01:41:10,390 --> 01:41:05,920
mentioned too that we had been under

2689
01:41:15,669 --> 01:41:11,990
seems like

2690
01:41:17,430 --> 01:41:15,679
network hype um i don't know i've heard

2691
01:41:19,350 --> 01:41:17,440
all sorts i've had so many times people

2692
01:41:21,990 --> 01:41:19,360
tell me hey i've got

2693
01:41:22,950 --> 01:41:22,000
100 secret blue book files

2694
01:41:27,510 --> 01:41:22,960
um

2695
01:41:30,709 --> 01:41:27,520
i don't know of any secret files i think

2696
01:41:35,189 --> 01:41:32,709
it could be i i don't know but i've

2697
01:41:37,270 --> 01:41:35,199
heard that a lot and to me that seems

2698
01:41:40,470 --> 01:41:37,280
sort of couched in

2699
01:41:41,430 --> 01:41:40,480
uh ratings grabbing tv

2700
01:41:44,709 --> 01:41:41,440
lingo

2701
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:44,719
but but paul on that um don't you think

2702
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:46,560
that there were

2703
01:41:50,070 --> 01:41:48,320
there were reports that came in that

2704
01:41:51,270 --> 01:41:50,080
were a little too hot

2705
01:41:55,270 --> 01:41:51,280
that um

2706
01:41:57,830 --> 01:41:55,280
they had to be like handled elsewhere

2707
01:41:58,790 --> 01:41:57,840
yeah sure and i i think those would have

2708
01:41:59,669 --> 01:41:58,800
gone

2709
01:42:01,990 --> 01:41:59,679
to the

2710
01:42:05,669 --> 01:42:02,000
air intelligence service squadron which

2711
01:42:07,990 --> 01:42:05,679
was tasked with going to any kind of

2712
01:42:10,390 --> 01:42:08,000
downed

2713
01:42:12,629 --> 01:42:10,400
ship or aircraft site and they even had

2714
01:42:15,030 --> 01:42:12,639
russian speakers and they their job was

2715
01:42:16,709 --> 01:42:15,040
to get to any crash site of any kind

2716
01:42:18,470 --> 01:42:16,719
within six hours

2717
01:42:19,990 --> 01:42:18,480
so i think

2718
01:42:22,790 --> 01:42:20,000
they would have been the ones to get

2719
01:42:24,790 --> 01:42:22,800
what you're calling really hot cases so

2720
01:42:27,350 --> 01:42:24,800
i think they would have either been

2721
01:42:28,629 --> 01:42:27,360
diverted away from project blue book to

2722
01:42:31,030 --> 01:42:28,639
begin with

2723
01:42:32,709 --> 01:42:31,040
or if they had a brief landing at

2724
01:42:34,390 --> 01:42:32,719
project blue book would have been moved

2725
01:42:36,790 --> 01:42:34,400
away very quickly

2726
01:42:39,189 --> 01:42:36,800
such that project blue book

2727
01:42:41,270 --> 01:42:39,199
might well not have a lot of records

2728
01:42:43,189 --> 01:42:41,280
like that which doesn't mean they don't

2729
01:42:45,270 --> 01:42:43,199
exist i just don't think there's a whole

2730
01:42:47,570 --> 01:42:45,280
lot at project blue book because that

2731
01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:47,580
really wasn't their job

2732
01:42:51,910 --> 01:42:49,840
[Music]

2733
01:42:54,149 --> 01:42:51,920
sarah i i think i i know what you're

2734
01:42:56,870 --> 01:42:54,159
talking who you're talking about i

2735
01:42:59,350 --> 01:42:56,880
believe james fox might have interviewed

2736
01:43:01,350 --> 01:42:59,360
her at one time but anyway we have the

2737
01:43:02,229 --> 01:43:01,360
lines are full so thank you very much

2738
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:02,239
sarah

2739
01:43:04,870 --> 01:43:03,040
sure

2740
01:43:07,030 --> 01:43:04,880
thank you one other quick thing paul is

2741
01:43:08,790 --> 01:43:07,040
the formula for age reversal or you have

2742
01:43:10,709 --> 01:43:08,800
a product put me at the top of the list

2743
01:43:11,990 --> 01:43:10,719
for it okay

2744
01:43:13,430 --> 01:43:12,000
so uh

2745
01:43:14,709 --> 01:43:13,440
if you're interested in age reversal you

2746
01:43:15,830 --> 01:43:14,719
certainly want to listen to martin's

2747
01:43:18,950 --> 01:43:15,840
other show

2748
01:43:20,070 --> 01:43:18,960
but you can go to intervene immune dot

2749
01:43:23,590 --> 01:43:20,080
com

2750
01:43:26,229 --> 01:43:23,600
and learn about the publicly available

2751
01:43:27,750 --> 01:43:26,239
technique now that we've been using to

2752
01:43:30,390 --> 01:43:27,760
reverse h

2753
01:43:32,390 --> 01:43:30,400
yeah and so i will about that i will

2754
01:43:34,550 --> 01:43:32,400
talk to paul and set up a time and and

2755
01:43:36,629 --> 01:43:34,560
let everyone know these are shows that

2756
01:43:38,390 --> 01:43:36,639
are on the youtube channel on the

2757
01:43:40,709 --> 01:43:38,400
everything else show so they'll be

2758
01:43:42,870 --> 01:43:40,719
coming uh and the way you can find out

2759
01:43:44,470 --> 01:43:42,880
when those shows are the easiest way is

2760
01:43:46,870 --> 01:43:44,480
to subscribe and it's a free

2761
01:43:49,189 --> 01:43:46,880
subscription by the way to our youtube

2762
01:43:51,270 --> 01:43:49,199
channel and just click the notification

2763
01:43:53,270 --> 01:43:51,280
button um someone made a very good point

2764
01:43:55,189 --> 01:43:53,280
people might think that there's a charge

2765
01:43:57,430 --> 01:43:55,199
to subscribe but it's free

2766
01:44:00,310 --> 01:43:57,440
anyway thank you for that sarah and we

2767
01:44:03,270 --> 01:44:00,320
have len calling from ontario len you

2768
01:44:05,109 --> 01:44:03,280
are live on the air

2769
01:44:08,070 --> 01:44:05,119
hi good evening and thanks so much for

2770
01:44:09,430 --> 01:44:08,080
your show um i emailed earlier i've had

2771
01:44:11,430 --> 01:44:09,440
the privilege of attending a

2772
01:44:13,109 --> 01:44:11,440
presentation by dr alan heineck at the

2773
01:44:16,790 --> 01:44:13,119
university of waterloo

2774
01:44:18,550 --> 01:44:16,800
uh can you hear me okay yes fine

2775
01:44:20,470 --> 01:44:18,560
okay okay good because i'm calling over

2776
01:44:22,550 --> 01:44:20,480
wi-fi um

2777
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:22,560
and one of the questions that was asked

2778
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:25,119
of him at the end of the show was

2779
01:44:31,109 --> 01:44:28,560
do you have with your access to you know

2780
01:44:32,390 --> 01:44:31,119
secure information or

2781
01:44:34,550 --> 01:44:32,400
that

2782
01:44:36,870 --> 01:44:34,560
much more interesting material than what

2783
01:44:39,430 --> 01:44:36,880
you've presented us with tonight and

2784
01:44:42,310 --> 01:44:39,440
his answer was uh yes i do next question

2785
01:44:46,149 --> 01:44:42,320
please and moving on away from that from

2786
01:44:48,229 --> 01:44:46,159
that topic uh you know um keeping his uh

2787
01:44:50,709 --> 01:44:48,239
his obligations to

2788
01:44:51,750 --> 01:44:50,719
to security and confidentiality but

2789
01:44:57,590 --> 01:44:51,760
um

2790
01:44:59,510 --> 01:44:57,600
what do you think of we we constantly

2791
01:45:01,590 --> 01:44:59,520
think of the ufo phenomenon in terms of

2792
01:45:03,270 --> 01:45:01,600
our own understanding of physics in the

2793
01:45:04,950 --> 01:45:03,280
universe etc

2794
01:45:06,550 --> 01:45:04,960
and we look at it from

2795
01:45:08,470 --> 01:45:06,560
you know when the question of travel

2796
01:45:10,390 --> 01:45:08,480
from that distance comes up we look at

2797
01:45:11,109 --> 01:45:10,400
it in terms of what we know

2798
01:45:13,109 --> 01:45:11,119
and

2799
01:45:15,270 --> 01:45:13,119
say that it's oh it's impossible yada

2800
01:45:18,550 --> 01:45:15,280
yada

2801
01:45:20,629 --> 01:45:18,560
but i would i've always um

2802
01:45:23,270 --> 01:45:20,639
believed that

2803
01:45:23,990 --> 01:45:23,280
a civilization that is advanced enough

2804
01:45:26,709 --> 01:45:24,000
to

2805
01:45:27,669 --> 01:45:26,719
visit us regardless of how they're doing

2806
01:45:29,990 --> 01:45:27,679
it

2807
01:45:32,390 --> 01:45:30,000
would also be advanced

2808
01:45:34,470 --> 01:45:32,400
in terms of ethical and moral terms and

2809
01:45:36,229 --> 01:45:34,480
that

2810
01:45:40,070 --> 01:45:36,239
they likely don't

2811
01:45:42,229 --> 01:45:40,080
have the need to to colonize and conquer

2812
01:45:43,510 --> 01:45:42,239
they don't have the need to go in search

2813
01:45:45,830 --> 01:45:43,520
of food because they can probably

2814
01:45:48,229 --> 01:45:45,840
synthesize everything they need

2815
01:45:51,750 --> 01:45:48,239
yadda yadda that there are many aspects

2816
01:45:54,470 --> 01:45:51,760
to to uh advancement that uh

2817
01:45:57,189 --> 01:45:54,480
that you know that come into the picture

2818
01:45:58,709 --> 01:45:57,199
and that also includes your your

2819
01:46:00,070 --> 01:45:58,719
reference to

2820
01:46:02,550 --> 01:46:00,080
what is actually

2821
01:46:05,270 --> 01:46:02,560
happening uh you know are these are

2822
01:46:08,310 --> 01:46:05,280
these communications or are these

2823
01:46:10,470 --> 01:46:08,320
these uh um is the phenomena part of of

2824
01:46:13,109 --> 01:46:10,480
something other than you know physical

2825
01:46:14,950 --> 01:46:13,119
travel

2826
01:46:16,310 --> 01:46:14,960
i i think you make a really good point

2827
01:46:18,629 --> 01:46:16,320
that

2828
01:46:21,510 --> 01:46:18,639
if they're able to

2829
01:46:22,390 --> 01:46:21,520
come here and even the word here

2830
01:46:24,070 --> 01:46:22,400
we

2831
01:46:25,430 --> 01:46:24,080
it means that they're coming from there

2832
01:46:27,590 --> 01:46:25,440
and it might be something even more

2833
01:46:30,229 --> 01:46:27,600
exotic on that but yes let's say they're

2834
01:46:32,709 --> 01:46:30,239
coming from someplace far away

2835
01:46:34,790 --> 01:46:32,719
by whatever means they do that

2836
01:46:36,790 --> 01:46:34,800
conventional or

2837
01:46:37,910 --> 01:46:36,800
you know they they travel in time and

2838
01:46:40,390 --> 01:46:37,920
space

2839
01:46:42,790 --> 01:46:40,400
if they're able to come here they're by

2840
01:46:44,149 --> 01:46:42,800
definition so far advanced from us and

2841
01:46:46,390 --> 01:46:44,159
they likely have had their own

2842
01:46:48,149 --> 01:46:46,400
singularity so

2843
01:46:50,070 --> 01:46:48,159
they're able to turn the universe into

2844
01:46:51,990 --> 01:46:50,080
computational engines and do things we

2845
01:46:53,350 --> 01:46:52,000
would regard as magic

2846
01:46:56,310 --> 01:46:53,360
that yes i

2847
01:46:59,270 --> 01:46:56,320
i quite agree they don't need our gold

2848
01:47:01,270 --> 01:46:59,280
they don't need our food our water

2849
01:47:03,950 --> 01:47:01,280
i don't believe we're exceptional enough

2850
01:47:07,669 --> 01:47:03,960
as a species that our concept of

2851
01:47:09,430 --> 01:47:07,679
non-borg like individual love is enough

2852
01:47:10,229 --> 01:47:09,440
to bring them here

2853
01:47:11,990 --> 01:47:10,239
and

2854
01:47:13,910 --> 01:47:12,000
you know along with that

2855
01:47:15,750 --> 01:47:13,920
if they were coming here

2856
01:47:18,229 --> 01:47:15,760
and meant us evil

2857
01:47:19,750 --> 01:47:18,239
it's like if you see two dogs

2858
01:47:22,550 --> 01:47:19,760
interacting

2859
01:47:23,750 --> 01:47:22,560
and you ask yourself are they fighting

2860
01:47:25,750 --> 01:47:23,760
or playing

2861
01:47:28,149 --> 01:47:25,760
you know they're playing when two dogs

2862
01:47:29,750 --> 01:47:28,159
are fighting you don't ask that if

2863
01:47:30,830 --> 01:47:29,760
aliens come here

2864
01:47:32,470 --> 01:47:30,840
with that

2865
01:47:34,790 --> 01:47:32,480
superiority

2866
01:47:36,470 --> 01:47:34,800
and they have hostile intentions

2867
01:47:38,870 --> 01:47:36,480
we would know or maybe we wouldn't

2868
01:47:39,910 --> 01:47:38,880
because we'd be gone immediately

2869
01:47:42,950 --> 01:47:39,920
and they wouldn't really need to

2870
01:47:45,030 --> 01:47:42,960
colonize us or make us batteries or

2871
01:47:47,109 --> 01:47:45,040
these are various you know dystopian

2872
01:47:49,350 --> 01:47:47,119
views of the aliens

2873
01:47:51,030 --> 01:47:49,360
so at least for me it's comforting to

2874
01:47:52,709 --> 01:47:51,040
know

2875
01:47:54,070 --> 01:47:52,719
if we're being visited which seems

2876
01:47:55,990 --> 01:47:54,080
likely

2877
01:47:57,990 --> 01:47:56,000
they're at best

2878
01:48:00,390 --> 01:47:58,000
indifferent to us or at worst

2879
01:48:03,189 --> 01:48:00,400
indifferent to us and perhaps you know

2880
01:48:08,149 --> 01:48:05,590
yeah well travis walton's experience uh

2881
01:48:09,270 --> 01:48:08,159
seems to indicate that they were caring

2882
01:48:12,229 --> 01:48:09,280
um

2883
01:48:14,470 --> 01:48:12,239
uh

2884
01:48:17,109 --> 01:48:14,480
i wonder if um

2885
01:48:19,189 --> 01:48:17,119
if their lack of

2886
01:48:20,070 --> 01:48:19,199
disclosure if you will

2887
01:48:22,149 --> 01:48:20,080
um

2888
01:48:23,669 --> 01:48:22,159
has something to do with that that they

2889
01:48:24,709 --> 01:48:23,679
won't

2890
01:48:27,270 --> 01:48:24,719
uh

2891
01:48:29,189 --> 01:48:27,280
interfere or they won't make serious

2892
01:48:32,870 --> 01:48:29,199
attempts to reveal

2893
01:48:35,910 --> 01:48:32,880
themselves until we're beyond our

2894
01:48:37,750 --> 01:48:35,920
very aggressive and war-like uh kind of

2895
01:48:39,430 --> 01:48:37,760
tendencies

2896
01:48:43,510 --> 01:48:39,440
do you think we will

2897
01:48:44,790 --> 01:48:43,520
progress beyond our bellicose nature

2898
01:48:46,550 --> 01:48:44,800
well yeah

2899
01:48:49,910 --> 01:48:46,560
that's a good question it seems to be a

2900
01:48:52,470 --> 01:48:49,920
genetic trait but uh and and that brings

2901
01:48:53,189 --> 01:48:52,480
into into question the whole question

2902
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:53,199
the

2903
01:48:58,790 --> 01:48:56,159
uh topic of of evolution you know our

2904
01:49:00,790 --> 01:48:58,800
evolution started has its own history

2905
01:49:01,669 --> 01:49:00,800
and and evolution someplace else may

2906
01:49:03,510 --> 01:49:01,679
have

2907
01:49:05,430 --> 01:49:03,520
not only progressed differently but it

2908
01:49:07,109 --> 01:49:05,440
may have started completely differently

2909
01:49:08,950 --> 01:49:07,119
so yeah

2910
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:08,960
obviously you know there's so many

2911
01:49:12,470 --> 01:49:10,400
possibilities

2912
01:49:14,229 --> 01:49:12,480
yeah i have to tell you you're you're

2913
01:49:16,709 --> 01:49:14,239
asking and making some really really

2914
01:49:18,629 --> 01:49:16,719
good points of len and i've really

2915
01:49:20,870 --> 01:49:18,639
enjoyed uh your thoughts and your

2916
01:49:22,550 --> 01:49:20,880
questions a lot uh but unfortunately we

2917
01:49:24,070 --> 01:49:22,560
have uh three other people waiting

2918
01:49:26,550 --> 01:49:24,080
online and only five minutes to get

2919
01:49:28,070 --> 01:49:26,560
through them so thank you very much and

2920
01:49:29,510 --> 01:49:28,080
i'm going to have to move on to the next

2921
01:49:31,910 --> 01:49:29,520
caller you can call in again though

2922
01:49:33,990 --> 01:49:31,920
anytime len thank you

2923
01:49:36,709 --> 01:49:34,000
okay thanks thanks all right we have ken

2924
01:49:40,709 --> 01:49:36,719
calling from la can you have a fairly

2925
01:49:40,719 --> 01:49:44,629
hi tan you're live on the air

2926
01:49:48,790 --> 01:49:46,790
ken are you there

2927
01:49:51,030 --> 01:49:48,800
jen you have a fairly quick question for

2928
01:49:54,390 --> 01:49:51,040
our guest all right you got a mutual

2929
01:49:56,709 --> 01:49:54,400
mutual device mute your device please

2930
01:49:57,830 --> 01:49:56,719
ken you're live in the air

2931
01:50:01,189 --> 01:49:57,840
yes we just have a question a

2932
01:50:02,950 --> 01:50:01,199
hypothetical question um if there was an

2933
01:50:04,629 --> 01:50:02,960
advanced species

2934
01:50:07,189 --> 01:50:04,639
living in our oceans

2935
01:50:09,030 --> 01:50:07,199
what do you think we would see

2936
01:50:10,390 --> 01:50:09,040
and if there was again an advanced

2937
01:50:12,470 --> 01:50:10,400
species living on the ocean do you think

2938
01:50:16,950 --> 01:50:12,480
that they would be concerned with our

2939
01:50:22,470 --> 01:50:16,960
nuclear capabilities and our military

2940
01:50:25,830 --> 01:50:24,950
is the answer yes

2941
01:50:28,709 --> 01:50:25,840
well

2942
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:28,719
i i'm not sure um

2943
01:50:32,790 --> 01:50:30,400
you know the first part about

2944
01:50:35,510 --> 01:50:32,800
if there's an advanced

2945
01:50:36,709 --> 01:50:35,520
being or civilization underwater what do

2946
01:50:39,750 --> 01:50:36,719
we see

2947
01:50:40,709 --> 01:50:39,760
probably whatever they deigned to let us

2948
01:50:41,910 --> 01:50:40,719
see

2949
01:50:43,589 --> 01:50:41,920
and

2950
01:50:47,430 --> 01:50:43,599
in terms of

2951
01:50:49,750 --> 01:50:47,440
you know there's a lot of reports about

2952
01:50:51,350 --> 01:50:49,760
visitors concerned about nuclear

2953
01:50:54,470 --> 01:50:51,360
capabilities

2954
01:50:56,709 --> 01:50:54,480
but in the very small report put out by

2955
01:50:59,270 --> 01:50:56,719
the us government

2956
01:51:00,790 --> 01:50:59,280
in june on june 25th

2957
01:51:02,070 --> 01:51:00,800
they even mentioned something i find

2958
01:51:03,030 --> 01:51:02,080
very interesting

2959
01:51:08,229 --> 01:51:03,040
that

2960
01:51:09,109 --> 01:51:08,239
accounts for

2961
01:51:21,750 --> 01:51:09,119
a

2962
01:51:23,830 --> 01:51:21,760
so

2963
01:51:27,030 --> 01:51:23,840
again i don't think that our species is

2964
01:51:29,189 --> 01:51:27,040
viewed as that exceptional by anybody i

2965
01:51:32,229 --> 01:51:29,199
don't know if they care

2966
01:51:33,830 --> 01:51:32,239
about our nuclear capabilities or our

2967
01:51:35,990 --> 01:51:33,840
you know lens that are sort of our

2968
01:51:38,070 --> 01:51:36,000
bellicose nature but

2969
01:51:40,310 --> 01:51:38,080
i think a lot of

2970
01:51:41,830 --> 01:51:40,320
the reports around

2971
01:51:45,350 --> 01:51:41,840
nuclear facilities are because we're

2972
01:51:47,189 --> 01:51:45,360
just able to see things better there

2973
01:51:49,109 --> 01:51:47,199
oh very good um

2974
01:51:51,189 --> 01:51:49,119
i'm sorry uh that that was a great

2975
01:51:55,030 --> 01:51:51,199
question scott we have to jump to our

2976
01:51:56,149 --> 01:51:55,040
next guest which is scott uh

2977
01:51:58,149 --> 01:51:56,159
i think scott you're calling from

2978
01:52:01,270 --> 01:51:58,159
illinois i believe welcome to the show

2979
01:52:03,750 --> 01:52:01,280
scott you're live on the air

2980
01:52:06,709 --> 01:52:03,760
thanks martin uh big fan of your show

2981
01:52:09,270 --> 01:52:06,719
listen every episode uh thank you for

2982
01:52:11,270 --> 01:52:09,280
taking my call

2983
01:52:14,310 --> 01:52:11,280
um so um this is a little bit of a

2984
01:52:17,109 --> 01:52:14,320
selfish uh reason for me calling um

2985
01:52:19,669 --> 01:52:17,119
if i could just quickly

2986
01:52:20,709 --> 01:52:19,679
explain that experience and then ask if

2987
01:52:23,030 --> 01:52:20,719
uh

2988
01:52:25,350 --> 01:52:23,040
there are any cases similar just keep in

2989
01:52:28,310 --> 01:52:25,360
mind we have two minutes

2990
01:52:31,750 --> 01:52:28,320
two minutes okay so i saw uh during the

2991
01:52:33,270 --> 01:52:31,760
daytime about 10 years ago a ufo

2992
01:52:36,709 --> 01:52:33,280
that was rustic

2993
01:52:38,629 --> 01:52:36,719
and it had red dots going up and down

2994
01:52:40,950 --> 01:52:38,639
and it disappeared it cloaked from the

2995
01:52:42,149 --> 01:52:40,960
top down and literally you could only

2996
01:52:44,470 --> 01:52:42,159
see sky

2997
01:52:46,070 --> 01:52:44,480
behind it and it was completely silent

2998
01:52:48,790 --> 01:52:46,080
so i'm wondering

2999
01:52:51,510 --> 01:52:48,800
are there any cases of people seeing

3000
01:52:53,189 --> 01:52:51,520
an actual ufo cloak in front of in front

3001
01:52:54,229 --> 01:52:53,199
of them

3002
01:52:55,510 --> 01:52:54,239
like that

3003
01:52:57,830 --> 01:52:55,520
yeah

3004
01:53:00,790 --> 01:52:57,840
uh do you any i have heard one in the

3005
01:53:02,550 --> 01:53:00,800
desert that that did that in particular

3006
01:53:04,950 --> 01:53:02,560
um they could all of a sudden they saw

3007
01:53:06,070 --> 01:53:04,960
the background of the the cliff or rock

3008
01:53:08,629 --> 01:53:06,080
formation

3009
01:53:09,910 --> 01:53:08,639
just it was it was right between them

3010
01:53:11,750 --> 01:53:09,920
and the rock formation and all of a

3011
01:53:13,750 --> 01:53:11,760
sudden there was the rock formation

3012
01:53:16,310 --> 01:53:13,760
thing was gone i don't know if there's

3013
01:53:17,189 --> 01:53:16,320
any that come to mind paul yeah and i

3014
01:53:18,870 --> 01:53:17,199
think

3015
01:53:22,149 --> 01:53:18,880
that's a fascinating

3016
01:53:23,669 --> 01:53:22,159
um sighting it kind of reminds me of

3017
01:53:25,270 --> 01:53:23,679
when you go transition between

3018
01:53:27,189 --> 01:53:25,280
powerpoint slides and you have that kind

3019
01:53:29,109 --> 01:53:27,199
of white right so that's an interesting

3020
01:53:31,589 --> 01:53:29,119
one but i think also

3021
01:53:34,070 --> 01:53:31,599
it gets hard to distinguish between

3022
01:53:37,109 --> 01:53:34,080
if you're seeing something and it cloaks

3023
01:53:39,270 --> 01:53:37,119
itself or it just moves so fast that you

3024
01:53:41,030 --> 01:53:39,280
can't even see it yeah it would produce

3025
01:53:42,149 --> 01:53:41,040
the same result did you see it and now

3026
01:53:43,669 --> 01:53:42,159
it's gone

3027
01:53:46,149 --> 01:53:43,679
that's right i've heard a lot of that

3028
01:53:47,350 --> 01:53:46,159
unfortunately we're out of time so paul

3029
01:53:49,589 --> 01:53:47,360
i can't wait to have you on the

3030
01:53:51,430 --> 01:53:49,599
everything else show to talk about why

3031
01:53:52,390 --> 01:53:51,440
you're younger now than you used to be

3032
01:53:54,229 --> 01:53:52,400
but

3033
01:53:55,750 --> 01:53:54,239
thank you so much it's always a lot of

3034
01:53:57,830 --> 01:53:55,760
fun talking to you

3035
01:53:59,669 --> 01:53:57,840
all right you take care all right all

3036
01:54:03,030 --> 01:53:59,679
right bye all right everyone so we'll be

3037
01:54:05,669 --> 01:54:03,040
back next week with christina gomez and

3038
01:54:07,910 --> 01:54:05,679
thank you all for listening and watching

3039
01:54:11,630 --> 01:54:07,920
the show tonight and remember to keep

3040
01:54:20,950 --> 01:54:11,640
your eyes to the sky